Help please with Boost Discussion Policy

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[config] Removing support for old...

Fletcher, John P

22 Jan 2014 22 Jan '14

10:13 p.m.

It has been pointed out to me that I need to change my habits from top posting to be conformant to the Boost Discussion Policy http://www.boost.org/community/policy.html I accept this fully and I am seeking some guidance how to achieve this. At my place of work our email client is Microsoft Outlook 2010 and the normal practice is top posting. When I am at home I can access the same system via a web email client which does the same thing. The Boost policy document reffers to Quote-Fix (http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/ ) which was last updated in 2006 and does not work with current versions of Outlook. There is also this: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/macros4outlook/index.php?title=QuoteFi... I am doing most of my Boost work from home and want to be able to communicate freely. Ideally what I want to do is to switch between the styles so that only my Boost and related work is in quoted style. Any help will be much appreciated. Thank you John Fletcher

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Eric Niebler

22 Jan 22 Jan

10:52 p.m.

On 1/22/2014 2:13 PM, Fletcher, John P wrote:

...

It has been pointed out to me that I need to change my habits from top posting to be conformant to the Boost Discussion Policy http://www.boost.org/community/policy.html

I accept this fully and I am seeking some guidance how to achieve this. At my place of work our email client is Microsoft Outlook 2010 and the normal practice is top posting.

When I am at home I can access the same system via a web email client which does the same thing.

The Boost policy document reffers to Quote-Fix (http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/ ) which was last updated in 2006 and does not work with current versions of Outlook.

There is also this: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/macros4outlook/index.php?title=QuoteFi...

I am doing most of my Boost work from home and want to be able to communicate freely.

Ideally what I want to do is to switch between the styles so that only my Boost and related work is in quoted style.

Any help will be much appreciated.

I have no recent experience with Outlook. I personally use Mozilla Thunderbird. You could simply install a second email client. Eric

Fletcher, John P

11:06 p.m.

From: Boost [boost-bounces@lists.boost.org] on behalf of Eric Niebler [eniebler@boost.org] Sent: 22 January 2014 22:52 To: boost@lists.boost.org Subject: Re: [boost] Help please with Boost Discussion Policy

...

I have no recent experience with Outlook. I personally use Mozilla Thunderbird. You could simply install a second email client.

...

Eric

Eric I do have a Thunderbird set up for my home email address, quite separate from my work email address. I am not sure if I can use my work email address via Thunderbird, and in any case would lose integration with the substantial email database on Outlook. I am using the Outlook web client for this and the realistic solution is to reduce quoting to a minimum, probably a good idea anyway. At least I am now aware of the issue. Thanks John _______________________________________________ Unsubscribe & other changes: http://lists.boost.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/boost

Edward Diener

10:54 p.m.

On 1/22/2014 5:13 PM, Fletcher, John P wrote:

...

It has been pointed out to me that I need to change my habits from top posting to be conformant to the Boost Discussion Policy http://www.boost.org/community/policy.html

I accept this fully and I am seeking some guidance how to achieve this. At my place of work our email client is Microsoft Outlook 2010 and the normal practice is top posting.

When I am at home I can access the same system via a web email client which does the same thing.

The Boost policy document reffers to Quote-Fix (http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/ ) which was last updated in 2006 and does not work with current versions of Outlook.

There is also this: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/macros4outlook/index.php?title=QuoteFi...

I am doing most of my Boost work from home and want to be able to communicate freely.

Ideally what I want to do is to switch between the styles so that only my Boost and related work is in quoted style.

Any help will be much appreciated.

Using Thunderbird it is relatively easy to setup so that when replying it quotes the original text by adding a '>' with each line of the text. Then you can open a line after the quoted text and make your reply. I am aware that Outlook does not normally do this but there should be some way to achieve that with Outlook. Is there not an Outlook forum somewhere where you can ask how to do this with Outlook ?

Niall Douglas

11:23 p.m.

On 22 Jan 2014 at 22:13, Fletcher, John P wrote:

...

I accept this fully and I am seeking some guidance how to achieve this. At my place of work our email client is Microsoft Outlook 2010 and the normal practice is top posting.

Outlook 2007 onwards is actually an excellent email client producing very conformant output to Boost and general Usenet/mailing list rules once it's configured correctly. The default config is mainly for non-technical users.

...

When I am at home I can access the same system via a web email client which does the same thing.

I can't say anything about the web client as I have never used it.

...

The Boost policy document reffers to Quote-Fix (http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/ ) which was last updated in 2006 and does not work with current versions of Outlook.

You don't need this in Outlook 2007 onwards. Outlook produces correctly quoted (i.e. using nested '>''s) if told to.

...

Ideally what I want to do is to switch between the styles so that only my Boost and related work is in quoted style.

Here's what I did while I was working for my former employer and was posting to this list using the corporate email client: 1. Tell Outlook to only ever show Plain Text email. 2. Tell Outlook to only ever quote using indented >'s with a wrap of 74? Whatever it defaults to for wrapping was correct anyway. Both of those options are buried in the menus. One of them may have been in default message options or something. On the ribbon in a compose email box, there is a button for message options which lets you override for that email. When you want rich text replies, open the email into its own window rather than viewing it in the quick view, and hit the wee drop down saying the displayed format is incomplete and would you like HTML view. Now if you reply, if I remember right, it should reply in rich text rather than plain. I never found a way to configure Outlook to use plain text only for some email addresses (i.e. the boost list) and rich text for everything else. For me it didn't matter, I simply wrote and viewed everything in plain text, top posting at work because no one at work ever read more than the top three lines of any email. No one complained at work with this approach. Niall -- Currently unemployed and looking for work in Ireland. Work Portfolio: http://careers.stackoverflow.com/nialldouglas/

Mateusz Łoskot

23 Jan 23 Jan

7:41 a.m.

On 22 January 2014 23:23, Niall Douglas wrote:

...

On 22 Jan 2014 at 22:13, Fletcher, John P wrote:

...
Ideally what I want to do is to switch between the styles so that only my Boost and related work is in quoted style.

Here's what I did while I was working for my former employer and was posting to this list using the corporate email client:

1. Tell Outlook to only ever show Plain Text email.

This works.

...

2. Tell Outlook to only ever quote using indented >'s with a wrap of 74? Whatever it defaults to for wrapping was correct anyway.

This works.

...

Both of those options are buried in the menus. One of them may have been in default message options or something. On the ribbon in a compose email box, there is a button for message options which lets you override for that email.

Yes, on Ribbon -> File -> Options -> Mail. But, one little-big problem remains, even in Outlook 2010: how do you configure preamble to message quotation so it looks properly in the standard format of "John Smith wrote:", like here: """ On 22 January 2014 23:23, Niall Douglas wrote:

...

On 22 Jan 2014 at 22:13, Fletcher, John P wrote:

""" Even with your suggested configuration, Outlook always uses forward-like format: """

...

-----Original Message----- From: Niall Douglas Sent: 22 January 2014 23:23 To: Fletcher, John P Subject: ...

""" I do use Outlook daily and I confirm using it for mailing lists is a large PITA, so I'm compassionate to John. What I do is, use GMail or Thunderbird, both can talk to external servers via IMAP. Best regards, -- Mateusz Łoskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net

Mateusz Łoskot

7:42 a.m.

On 23 January 2014 07:41, Mateusz Łoskot wrote:

...

On 22 January 2014 23:23, Niall Douglas wrote:

...
On 22 Jan 2014 at 22:13, Fletcher, John P wrote:

...
Ideally what I want to do is to switch between the styles so that only my Boost and related work is in quoted style.

Here's what I did while I was working for my former employer and was posting to this list using the corporate email client:

1. Tell Outlook to only ever show Plain Text email.

This works.

...
2. Tell Outlook to only ever quote using indented >'s with a wrap of 74? Whatever it defaults to for wrapping was correct anyway.

This works.

...
Both of those options are buried in the menus. One of them may have been in default message options or something. On the ribbon in a compose email box, there is a button for message options which lets you override for that email.

Yes, on Ribbon -> File -> Options -> Mail.

But, one little-big problem remains, even in Outlook 2010: how do you configure preamble to message quotation so it looks properly in the standard format of "John Smith wrote:", like here:

""" On 22 January 2014 23:23, Niall Douglas wrote:

...
On 22 Jan 2014 at 22:13, Fletcher, John P wrote:

"""

Even with your suggested configuration, Outlook always uses forward-like format:

"""

...
-----Original Message----- From: Niall Douglas Sent: 22 January 2014 23:23 To: Fletcher, John P Subject: ...

"""

I do use Outlook daily and I confirm using it for mailing lists is a large PITA, so I'm compassionate to John. What I do is, use GMail or Thunderbird, both can talk to external servers via IMAP.

I forgot to add a little petition "Please, keep bottom-post rule intact", obviously :) Best regards, -- Mateusz Łoskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net

Niall Douglas

2:12 p.m.

...

But, one little-big problem remains, even in Outlook 2010: how do you configure preamble to message quotation so it looks properly in the standard format of "John Smith wrote:", like here:

""" On 22 January 2014 23:23, Niall Douglas wrote:

...
On 22 Jan 2014 at 22:13, Fletcher, John P wrote:

"""

Even with your suggested configuration, Outlook always uses forward-like format:

"""

...
-----Original Message----- From: Niall Douglas Sent: 22 January 2014 23:23 To: Fletcher, John P Subject: ...

"""

I used to chop it off as part of my normal pruning of quoted content. I don't believe anyone on this list ever noticed the fact the preamble was missing :) You might notice the preamble is missing on this reply too. It's quicker for me to chop more context than less, so I do. I suspect so do most people with high inbound email counts. Niall -- Currently unemployed and looking for work in Ireland. Work Portfolio: http://careers.stackoverflow.com/nialldouglas/

Mateusz Łoskot

2:53 p.m.

On 23 January 2014 14:12, Niall Douglas wrote:

...

...
But, one little-big problem remains, even in Outlook 2010: how do you configure preamble to message quotation so it looks properly in the standard format of "John Smith wrote:", like here:

""" On 22 January 2014 23:23, Niall Douglas wrote:

...
On 22 Jan 2014 at 22:13, Fletcher, John P wrote:

"""

Even with your suggested configuration, Outlook always uses forward-like format:

"""

...
-----Original Message----- From: Niall Douglas Sent: 22 January 2014 23:23 To: Fletcher, John P Subject: ...

"""

I used to chop it off as part of my normal pruning of quoted content.

Yes, that's what I do as well, when I have to use the Outlook.

...

I don't believe anyone on this list ever noticed the fact the preamble was missing :)

:-)

...

You might notice the preamble is missing on this reply too. It's quicker for me to chop more context than less, so I do. I suspect so do most people with high inbound email counts.

Sure thing. I chop things as well, but the preamble is sometimes helpful, especially if a thread has many participants. Best regards, -- Mateusz Łoskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net

Rob Stewart

24 Jan 24 Jan

10:33 a.m.

On Jan 23, 2014, at 9:53 AM, Mateusz Łoskot wrote:

...

On 23 January 2014 14:12, Niall Douglas wrote:

...
...
But, one little-big problem remains, even in Outlook 2010: how do you configure preamble to message quotation so it looks properly in the standard format of "John Smith wrote:", like here:

""" On 22 January 2014 23:23, Niall Douglas wrote:

...
On 22 Jan 2014 at 22:13, Fletcher, John P wrote: """

Even with your suggested configuration, Outlook always uses forward-like format:

"""

...
-----Original Message----- From: Niall Douglas Sent: 22 January 2014 23:23 To: Fletcher, John P Subject: ... """

I used to chop it off as part of my normal pruning of quoted content.

Yes, that's what I do as well, when I have to use the Outlook.

...
I don't believe anyone on this list ever noticed the fact the preamble was missing :)

:-)

I notice. Quoting without attribution can lead to confusion. Accessing previous posts on this device is awkward, if they still render (which generally is not the case), so discovering the author of a quote is frequently not possible. When I do use Outlook, from work, I select the sender's name, from the verbose header block, and then add "wrote:" to form the attribution.

...

...
You might notice the preamble is missing on this reply too. It's quicker for me to chop more context than less, so I do. I suspect so do most people with high inbound email counts.

Sure thing. I chop things as well, but the preamble is sometimes helpful, especially if a thread has many participants.

Quoting the minimum needed is always a good idea, but removing attributions is a step too far. ___ Rob (Sent from my portable computation engine)

Andreas Buhr

23 Jan 23 Jan

8:29 a.m.

Hi, On 01/22/2014 11:13 PM, Fletcher, John P wrote:

...

It has been pointed out to me that I need to change my habits from top posting to be conformant to the Boost Discussion Policy http://www.boost.org/community/policy.html

I accept this fully and I am seeking some guidance how to achieve this. At my place of work our email client is Microsoft Outlook 2010 and the normal practice is top posting.

For Outlook 2007 I use the following settings. Maybe it is similar in Outlook 2010? First, tell Outlook to send Plain Text: Tools->Options->Mail Format->Message Format: select "Plain Text" Second, tell Outlook how the quotes should look like: Tools->Options->Preferences->E-mail Options In field "When replying to a message" select "Prefix each line of the original message" In Field "Prefix each line with:" type "> " (dont forget the space) Using Thunderbird is of course the better solution. Best, Andreas

Paul A. Bristow

10:01 a.m.

...

-----Original Message----- From: Boost [mailto:boost-bounces@lists.boost.org] On Behalf Of Fletcher, John P Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 10:13 PM To: boost@lists.boost.org Subject: [boost] Help please with Boost Discussion Policy

It has been pointed out to me that I need to change my habits from top posting to be conformant to

the

...

Boost Discussion Policy http://www.boost.org/community/policy.html

I accept this fully and I am seeking some guidance how to achieve this. At my place of work our email client is Microsoft Outlook 2010 and the normal practice is top posting.

When I am at home I can access the same system via a web email client which does the same thing.

The Boost policy document reffers to Quote-Fix (http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/ ) which was last updated in 2006 and does not work with current versions of Outlook.

There is also this: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/macros4outlook/index.php?title=QuoteFi...

I am doing most of my Boost work from home and want to be able to communicate freely.

Ideally what I want to do is to switch between the styles so that only my Boost and related work is in quoted style.

Oultook allows you to "Change the message format for all messages sent to a specified recipient" But works hard to make it difficult to find and configure (as only Microsoft can excel at) http://office.microsoft.com/en-gb/outlook-help/change-the-message-format-to-... text-HA101992313.aspx so you can make all posts to boost@lists.boost.org use only plain text. HTH Paul --- Paul A. Bristow, Prizet Farmhouse, Kendal LA8 8AB UK +44 1539 561830 07714330204 pbristow@hetp.u-net.com

PB

10:15 a.m.

Has moving discussion to a online-forum rather than a mailing list ever been considered? This would sort the top posting issue, make quoting easier, make FAQs more visible (stickys), section the messages better (no need to put library name in subject). It would also clean up my inbox from Boost-related emails. Regards, Pete On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Paul A. Bristow wrote:

...

...
-----Original Message----- From: Boost [mailto:boost-bounces@lists.boost.org] On Behalf Of Fletcher, John P Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 10:13 PM To: boost@lists.boost.org Subject: [boost] Help please with Boost Discussion Policy

It has been pointed out to me that I need to change my habits from top posting to be conformant to the Boost Discussion Policy http://www.boost.org/community/policy.html

I accept this fully and I am seeking some guidance how to achieve this. At my place of work our email client is Microsoft Outlook 2010 and the normal practice is top posting.

When I am at home I can access the same system via a web email client which does the same thing.

The Boost policy document reffers to Quote-Fix ( http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/ ) which was last updated in 2006 and does not work with current versions of Outlook.

There is also this:

http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/macros4outlook/index.php?title=QuoteFi...

...
I am doing most of my Boost work from home and want to be able to

communicate freely.

...
Ideally what I want to do is to switch between the styles so that only

my Boost and related work is in

...
quoted style.

Oultook allows you to

"Change the message format for all messages sent to a specified recipient"

But works hard to make it difficult to find and configure (as only Microsoft can excel at)

http://office.microsoft.com/en-gb/outlook-help/change-the-message-format-to-... text-HA101992313.aspx

so you can make all posts to boost@lists.boost.org use only plain text.

HTH

Paul

--- Paul A. Bristow, Prizet Farmhouse, Kendal LA8 8AB UK +44 1539 561830 07714330204 pbristow@hetp.u-net.com

_______________________________________________ Unsubscribe & other changes: http://lists.boost.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/boost

Norbert Wenzel

11:20 a.m.

On 01/23/2014 11:15 AM, PB wrote:

...

Has moving discussion to a online-forum rather than a mailing list ever been considered? This would sort the top posting issue, make quoting easier, make FAQs more visible (stickys), section the messages better (no need to put library name in subject). It would also clean up my inbox from Boost-related emails.

I love that discussion, it comes up on every mailinglist now and then. The usual answer is, that heavy users don't want to change the push notification from several mailinglists to a pull notification in several webforums. I don't see how a webforum would solve a top posting issue, since one can usually freely place the quote in the message posted. Sectioning could be achieved by special mailinglists for special libraries, but it would be an extra amount of work to subscribe to all. All the filtering can already be done using a proper mailclient (which Outlook was not when I last used it, don't know about current versions). But you're right, I don't see how sticky messages could be solved using MLs, except as a link at the registration webform. Usually the final compromise is to refer to Gmane: http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lib.boost.devel, which can be used to post from the web or via NNTP. That's essentially a short summary of the 3 discussions on the same topic I read in the last 6 months on other mailinglists. It might be a different result on this list, but frankly I doubt that. Norbert

Gavin Lambert

30 Jan 30 Jan

6:37 a.m.

On 24/01/2014 00:20, Quoth Norbert Wenzel:

...

On 01/23/2014 11:15 AM, PB wrote:

...
Has moving discussion to a online-forum rather than a mailing list ever been considered?

Usually the final compromise is to refer to Gmane: http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lib.boost.devel, which can be used to post from the web or via NNTP.

FWIW, I'm using Thunderbird to access the Boost ML via Gmane NNTP (I use Outlook for work-related emails, because that's the standard here). It works quite well, especially for threading. The only real drawback that I've noticed with it is that TB can only remember one source email address for all of Gmane, so if you're registered using different addresses to different lists it can be a little painful. (There's probably an extension that can fix that.)

Mateusz Łoskot

23 Jan 23 Jan

11:32 a.m.

On 23 January 2014 10:15, PB wrote:

...

Has moving discussion to a online-forum rather than a mailing list ever been considered? This would sort the top posting issue, make quoting easier, make FAQs more visible (stickys), section the messages better (no need to put library name in subject). It would also clean up my inbox from Boost-related emails.

Been considered and been dropped as soon as the idea appeared, thankfully. You can search archives for the details. Best regards, -- Mateusz Łoskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net

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15 comments

11 participants

participants (11)

Andreas Buhr
Edward Diener
Eric Niebler
Fletcher, John P
Gavin Lambert
Mateusz Łoskot
Niall Douglas
Norbert Wenzel
Paul A. Bristow
PB
Rob Stewart