[oopsla-results] Discussion of changes to submission process
All - Since the base write-up of the OOPSLA results failed to spur really any discussion, I've written up a small proposal to tweak the submission process to include a mentor and to require a 'wiki under construction' page for each library. I've posted this on the Wiki and included it here for discussion. There are certainly more details to develop, but hopefully this email will start the process ;-) Jeff ---- http://www.crystalclearsoftware.com/cgi-bin/boost_wiki/wiki.pl?Proposed_Chan... The intent of this page is to serve as a focal point for disucssion of potential changes submissions process (http://www.boost.org/more/submission_process.htm). === Overview Of Proposed Process === * Learn about Boost. * Determine interest. * Add a Wiki Under Construction Page ('''new step''') * Preliminary submission. * Request Mentor ('''new step''') * Refinement. * Submission for review. * Formal Review. * Web site posting. * People page. * Lifecycle. === How Mentoring Might Work === The development of a boost library typically takes months/years from conception to finally becoming part of boost. To sucessfully navigate the obsticles requires lots of knowledge about how boost works. The basic role of a boost development mentor is to guide a new library developer thru the boost process. In essence to provide someone to help give new submitters a helping hand. The expectation is that a library mentor might spend a couple hours a month answering email questions to fulfill this role (if it exceeds this then it this process will not be practical. Almost all the boost developers are very busy people and we are now adding another thing to do). Some specific functions include: * Be a first reviewer / sounding board for the library developer * Answer questions about boost processes * Answer questions about boost build and other practices * Make sure the new developer is following the submission process Note that a new library developer is not restricted to using the mentor for asking questions -- in fact, they should be encouraged to use the mailing lists where a the larger group can help. === Wiki Under Construction Pages === One of the issues with the current Boost web structure is that it is quite difficult to find out about libraries that are in progress and it is difficult to others with similar interests. It was suggested that we formally add Wiki pages to track and organize this progress better. While this already exists to some extent in the LibrariesUnderConstruction Wiki page (http://www.crystalclearsoftware.com/cgi-bin/boost_wiki/wiki.pl?LibrariesUnde...), this page would be linked from the Boost mainpage and each library under construction would maintain it's own 'under construction page'. I've prototyped a new version of the under construction page (http://www.crystalclearsoftware.com/cgi-bin/boost_wiki/wiki.pl?LibrariesUnde...). The idea is to keep the information on the main page small so that it can be rapidly scanned. Details will go on the page associated with each individual library. The page will have categories of development status as follows: Review Pending Stable but Evolving -- Not Yet Submitted for Review Preliminary On Hold Abandoned === New Boost Vault === There is a new file storage area that new boost developers can use to share their library with the world. http://boost-sandbox.sourceforge.net/vault/
Jeff Garland wrote:
=== Overview Of Proposed Process ===
* Learn about Boost. * Determine interest.
Since I am not a native english speaker, please tell me what "Determine interest" means. Does it mean: 1) Find out by posting to the list if there is any interest for the lib xy, or 2) prove that you are interested in the boost community by actively taking part in discussions on the list. The following three steps sound very good.
* Add a Wiki Under Construction Page ('''new step''') * Preliminary submission. * Request Mentor ('''new step''')
Im am curious though what needs to be present at this stage? Is it necessary to have everything as outlined in the formal review requirements? Since I think I do have something that could be interesting to the common, but I am in no means sure others will see it this way, it seems a little too early to take the burden of full blown documentation, bjam'ing and writing all the tests. (Also the last three steps turned out to be unexpectedly nontrivial. I could not even find information how I can compile the lib as if it already is part of the boost tree. So a mentor would be really helpful here.) Roland
Jeff Garland wrote:
=== Overview Of Proposed Process ===
* Learn about Boost. * Determine interest.
The current process for determining interest is frustrating, and I think inaccurate. I believe people are shy about posting to the list simply to say whether or not they are interested. This leaves people like me in the dark. I know that I am shy about posting my interest in libraries on this list, and I am too busy/lazy to email the individuals, if I only care somewhat. Just for the record: I like the idea of a polynomial library, the currency library, the singleton library (but preferably as part of an entire design pattern library), the gui library (as long as it is as easily adapted to be compatible with existing libraries, for me ideally a boost::gui would be very abstract and would act as a front end to arbitrary widget system X) It would be really nice if the interest could be polled somehow on the wiki. There are literally dozens of free software for managing polls. Would the wiki webmaster consider adding some kind of functionality to create polls? I would propose a system whereby people could rate the interest 1 to 5. Christopher Diggins http://www.cdiggins.com http://www.heron-language.com
On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 14:47:29 -0500, christopher diggins wrote
It would be really nice if the interest could be polled somehow on the wiki. There are literally dozens of free software for managing polls. Would the wiki webmaster consider adding some kind of functionality to create polls? I would propose a system whereby people could rate the interest 1 to 5.
Since I'm the wiki webmaster, sure, I don't see a problem with it. Do you (or someone else) have specific poll software suggestions / experience? Preferably it would be something in PHP or Perl that could be added easily (despite the fact that I think many more web apps should be in C++ -- but that's a whole different discussion :-) Jeff
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Garland" <jeff@crystalclearsoftware.com> To: <boost@lists.boost.org> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [boost] [oopsla-results] Discussion of changes to submissionprocess
On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 14:47:29 -0500, christopher diggins wrote
It would be really nice if the interest could be polled somehow on the wiki. There are literally dozens of free software for managing polls. Would the wiki webmaster consider adding some kind of functionality to create polls? I would propose a system whereby people could rate the interest 1 to 5.
Since I'm the wiki webmaster, sure, I don't see a problem with it. Do you (or someone else) have specific poll software suggestions / experience?
I don't have any experience with such code, but I like the style of the polls at http://www.stadtaus.com/en/php_scripts/voting_script/
Preferably it would be something in PHP or Perl that could be added easily (despite the fact that I think many more web apps should be in C++ -- but that's a whole different discussion :-)
One which I would like to see brought up in the future! Christopher Diggins http://www.cdiggins.com http://www.heron-language.com
christopher diggins wrote:
I don't have any experience with such code, but I like the style of the polls at http://www.stadtaus.com/en/php_scripts/voting_script/
While the graphics indeed does look nice, this particular script seems to have not even the most basic means to protect against abuse. See the link for what I mean. (No I do not really like the :-( smiley most.) http://www.stadtaus.com/demos/voting_script/voting_image_options_en.php?resu... Having said this, I think some graphical summary display would be nice though. Roland
On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 20:29:40 +0100, Roland Schwarz wrote
Jeff Garland wrote:
=== Overview Of Proposed Process ===
* Learn about Boost. * Determine interest.
Since I am not a native english speaker, please tell me what "Determine interest" means. Does it mean: 1) Find out by posting to the list if there is any interest for the lib xy, or 2) prove that you are interested in the boost community by actively taking part in discussions on the list.
It's #1 -- find out if anyone is potentially interested in your library proposal. I'd guess 25% of the stuff that comes up stops at this step.
The following three steps sound very good.
* Add a Wiki Under Construction Page ('''new step''') * Preliminary submission. * Request Mentor ('''new step''')
Im am curious though what needs to be present at this stage? Is it necessary to have everything as outlined in the formal review requirements?
Pretty much nothing beyond a concept is needed to get started. At preliminary submission there needs to be a code prototype. I intentionally put the 'request a mentor' after this point so that people that aren't going to do anything don't have mentors...
Since I think I do have something that could be interesting to the common, but I am in no means sure others will see it this way, it seems a little too early to take the burden of full blown documentation, bjam'ing and writing all the tests.
Well, if I understand your question correctly, at the preliminary submission stage some code would be uploaded and made available for others to try out. It might not have any documentation besides a simple readme or something at this stage. At this second step you basically get a more detailed guage of whether your idea is going to work out.
(Also the last three steps turned out to be unexpectedly nontrivial. I could not even find information how I can compile the lib as if it already is part of the boost tree. So a mentor would be really helpful here.)
Agreed. Jeff
Jeff Garland wrote:
Well, if I understand your question correctly, at the preliminary submission stage some code would be uploaded and made available for others to try out. It might not have any documentation besides a simple readme or something at this stage. At this second step you basically get a more detailed guage of whether your idea is going to work out.
Ok undestood, thank you. I just tried to take the first step. Roland
a) Could all the old vault stuff be moved over to he new place? (If not already done) b)Could the main boost page be updated to point to the new vault. The new value seems to have the number of downloads (in a very small subscript). This is exceedingly useful for guaging interest. Personaly I've found the vault exceeding useful. Robert Ramey The Jeff Garland wrote:
All - === New Boost Vault ===
There is a new file storage area that new boost developers can use to share their library with the world.
http://boost-sandbox.sourceforge.net/vault/
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On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 12:33:15 -0800, Robert Ramey wrote
a) Could all the old vault stuff be moved over to he new place? (If not already done)
It hasn't been done yet -- we probably should discuss what should be moved from YahooGroups and what shouldn't. I don't think we want all the old stuff. However, there are some dead projects in there that I've occassionally scavenged for ideas -- so there's some things out there with value. Perhaps we need to just put out a broad message for authors to move their stuff. BTW, I'm assuming we won't have space problems on the new sandbox space. And many thx to Rene for setting up the new 'vault' -- it looks great!
b)Could the main boost page be updated to point to the new vault.
Yep, it should be, but probably after we move the active stuff...
The new value seems to have the number of downloads (in a very small subscript). This is exceedingly useful for guaging interest.
I think it will be helpful, but I can see how it might be misleading. I think we will need more experience with it to see how well the count gauges interest. Jeff
Jeff Garland wrote:
On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 12:33:15 -0800, Robert Ramey wrote
a) Could all the old vault stuff be moved over to he new place? (If not already done)
It hasn't been done yet -- we probably should discuss what should be moved from YahooGroups and what shouldn't.
BTW, I'm assuming we won't have space problems on the new sandbox space. And many thx to Rene for setting up the new 'vault' -- it looks great!
Lets just move it all. There's lots of good stuff there that can be helpful even it doesn't end up in boost.
The new value seems to have the number of downloads (in a very small subscript). This is exceedingly useful for guaging interest.
I think it will be helpful, but I can see how it might be misleading.
maybe - but its much better than nothing. I don't know what the options are here but: a)From looking at the page its not clear to me how one uploads a file. I sure hope one doesn't have to use the CVS system! b) It would be more than just helpful to have a text description of what the file is. c) I don't see why this section has directories. d) there is a login button whose purpose is unclear to me Robert Ramey
On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 13:26:22 -0800, Robert Ramey wrote
Lets just move it all. There's lots of good stuff there that can be helpful even it doesn't end up in boost.
Well, I don't agree. The old vault will still be there...
a)From looking at the page its not clear to me how one uploads a file. I sure hope one doesn't have to use the CVS system!
Nope.
b) It would be more than just helpful to have a text description of what the file is.
c) I don't see why this section has directories.
d) there is a login button whose purpose is unclear to me
There needs to be a help page for this thing (although I was able to figure it out without a how-to page). If you want to upload files you have to activate an account with a valid email address (that's what the login) is for. Given the current spamming situation this seems like a reasonable way to cut down on folks uploading stuff that doesn't belong... Jeff
Robert Ramey wrote:
Jeff Garland wrote:
On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 12:33:15 -0800, Robert Ramey wrote
a) Could all the old vault stuff be moved over to he new place? (If not already done)
It hasn't been done yet -- we probably should discuss what should be moved from YahooGroups and what shouldn't.
BTW, I'm assuming we won't have space problems on the new sandbox space. And many thx to Rene for setting up the new 'vault' -- it looks great!
Your welcome.. And the only space problems come from the limits that SF places on web space. So 100MB minus whatever else Boost Sandbox keeps there. And if it's really needed one can petition for more.
I don't know what the options are here but:
a)From looking at the page its not clear to me how one uploads a file. I sure hope one doesn't have to use the CVS system!
No. But you do have to register to get write access.
b) It would be more than just helpful to have a text description of what the file is.
There are descriptions for files. Don't know what happened to the ones Mr. Evans uploaded, they used to be there.
c) I don't see why this section has directories.
Why does anything have directories, but organize things.
d) there is a login button whose purpose is unclear to me
Try it to find out ;-) As I just saw in Jeff's response.. it lets you login or register. -- -- Grafik - Don't Assume Anything -- Redshift Software, Inc. - http://redshift-software.com -- rrivera/acm.org - grafik/redshift-software.com - 102708583/icq
On 01/08/2005 03:03 PM, Rene Rivera wrote:
There are descriptions for files. Don't know what happened to the ones Mr. Evans uploaded, they used to be there.
I deleted them because 1 was just to illustrate to Mr. Diggins a problem with his earlier variant code. The other's were to illustrate something about my variant/tuple code, but I figured the sandbox /libs/indexed_types/test directory could illustrate this just as well; hence, I figured to just save some space.
Robert Ramey wrote:
a) Could all the old vault stuff be moved over to he new place? (If not already done)
Well that's a fair amount of work. Ideally it would be done by the individual authors so that they have correct ownership.
b)Could the main boost page be updated to point to the new vault.
Yes. I'll try and do it today. If there are any problems with the new vault please email me directly.
Jeff Garland wrote:
All - === New Boost Vault ===
There is a new file storage area that new boost developers can use to share their library with the world.
-- -- Grafik - Don't Assume Anything -- Redshift Software, Inc. - http://redshift-software.com -- rrivera/acm.org - grafik/redshift-software.com - 102708583/icq
Rene Rivera wrote:
Robert Ramey wrote:
b)Could the main boost page be updated to point to the new vault.
Yes. I'll try and do it today.
Well the main page has a link to it now.. But the SF website caches seem to be preventing me from seeing the update front page content :-( -- -- Grafik - Don't Assume Anything -- Redshift Software, Inc. - http://redshift-software.com -- rrivera/acm.org - grafik/redshift-software.com - 102708583/icq
Rene Rivera wrote:
Rene Rivera wrote:
Robert Ramey wrote:
b)Could the main boost page be updated to point to the new vault.
Yes. I'll try and do it today.
Well the main page has a link to it now.. But the SF website caches seem to be preventing me from seeing the update front page content :-(
Wouldn't it be fortunate to have some structuring top level directories? e.g. by submitter name, by topic, .... Roland
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 16:14:32 +0100, Roland Schwarz wrote
Wouldn't it be fortunate to have some structuring top level directories?
e.g. by submitter name, by topic,
While it's fine if the archive has structure, the jist of the oopsla discussion we had was to use the wiki for the 'meta-data' about in-progress libraries as pointers into the vault. So the ultimate goal, as discussed so far, would be that you would look thru a wiki page for work in progress information. To achieve that, however, we have to do more to maintain and structure the wiki to that purpose. Jeff
Jeff Garland wrote:
While it's fine if the archive has structure, the jist of the oopsla discussion we had was to use the wiki for the 'meta-data' about in-progress libraries as pointers into the vault.
I am wondering how to index a file in the vault then? Simply putting: http://boost-sandbox.sourceforge.net/vault/directory/filename.ext obviously does not work. Roland
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 19:05:18 +0100, Roland Schwarz wrote
Jeff Garland wrote:
While it's fine if the archive has structure, the jist of the oopsla discussion we had was to use the wiki for the 'meta-data' about in-progress libraries as pointers into the vault.
I am wondering how to index a file in the vault then? Simply putting:
http://boost-sandbox.sourceforge.net/vault/directory/filename.ext
obviously does not work.
Well I think there will be a second step to download -- you can probably only point to the directory level. If I wanted to point at Eric Niebler's xpressive package the following should work: http://boost-sandbox.sourceforge.net/vault/index.php?&direction=0&order=&directory=eric_niebler or http://tinyurl.com/5etts Jeff
Jeff Garland wrote:
Well I think there will be a second step to download -- you can probably only point to the directory level. If I wanted to point at Eric Niebler's xpressive package the following should work:
http://boost-sandbox.sourceforge.net/vault/index.php?&direction=0&order=&directory=eric_niebler
or
The below seems to work as a one stop download link: http://boost-sandbox.sourceforge.net/vault/index.php?action=downloadfile&directory=eric_niebler&filename=foreach.zip Roland
participants (6)
-
christopher diggins -
Jeff Garland -
Larry Evans -
Rene Rivera -
Robert Ramey -
Roland Schwarz