On 21 March 2017 at 18:53, Edward Diener via Boost wrote:

On 3/21/2017 9:24 AM, Andrey Semashev via Boost wrote:

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Hi,

Sometimes I can see messages from the mailing list that have no Reply-To header. For example, this is the headers from a recent email from the ML:

Maybe you should explain how you are interacting with the mailing list. For instance I interact with the mailing list by responding to the GMane newsgroup 'gmane.comp.lib.boost.devel' using Thunderbird ( on Windows 7 or 8.1 and occasionally on various Linux distros ). Then someone who is doing what you are doing with the same e-mail software you are using under the same OS has a somewhat better chance to help you.

The problem is that Andrey was cc'd in the email, which arrived before the email from the mailing list. Both mails have the same message-id, so gmail discards the second one it receives. This means the mailing list software doesn't have a chance to change the headers.

AMDG On 03/21/2017 04:05 PM, Andrey Semashev via Boost wrote:

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:16 PM, Daniel James via Boost wrote:

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The problem is that Andrey was cc'd in the email, which arrived before the email from the mailing list. Both mails have the same message-id, so gmail discards the second one it receives. This means the mailing list software doesn't have a chance to change the headers.

I see. So the problem appears whenever a person does Reply to All, which sends two messages - to the ML and the original author that is specified in CC? But was the older infrastructure adding CC to the messages from the ML? I think it wasn't. Do we need the CC?

The From field used to be the sender, but was changed to be the list. Without the CC, the sender's email won't appear anywhere. Besides which, reply all could always cause this issue (and I have observed it occasionally in the past). In Christ, Steven Watanabe

On 03/22/17 01:21, Steven Watanabe via Boost wrote:

AMDG

On 03/21/2017 04:05 PM, Andrey Semashev via Boost wrote:

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On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:16 PM, Daniel James via Boost wrote:

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The problem is that Andrey was cc'd in the email, which arrived before the email from the mailing list. Both mails have the same message-id, so gmail discards the second one it receives. This means the mailing list software doesn't have a chance to change the headers.

I see. So the problem appears whenever a person does Reply to All, which sends two messages - to the ML and the original author that is specified in CC? But was the older infrastructure adding CC to the messages from the ML? I think it wasn't. Do we need the CC?

The From field used to be the sender, but was changed to be the list. Without the CC, the sender's email won't appear anywhere. Besides which, reply all could always cause this issue (and I have observed it occasionally in the past).

The sender is still present in the From on my end. Here's what I see in your message: To: boost@lists.boost.org From: Steven Watanabe via Boost Reply-To: boost@lists.boost.org Cc: Steven Watanabe Sender: "Boost" Your message contains Reply-To, so when I hit Reply the composed message is correctly addressed to boost@lists.boost.org.

On 03/22/17 01:21, Steven Watanabe via Boost wrote:

AMDG

On 03/21/2017 04:05 PM, Andrey Semashev via Boost wrote:

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On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:16 PM, Daniel James via Boost wrote:

...

The problem is that Andrey was cc'd in the email, which arrived before the email from the mailing list. Both mails have the same message-id, so gmail discards the second one it receives. This means the mailing list software doesn't have a chance to change the headers.

I see. So the problem appears whenever a person does Reply to All, which sends two messages - to the ML and the original author that is specified in CC? But was the older infrastructure adding CC to the messages from the ML? I think it wasn't. Do we need the CC?

The From field used to be the sender, but was changed to be the list. Without the CC, the sender's email won't appear anywhere. Besides which, reply all could always cause this issue (and I have observed it occasionally in the past).

Still, I've never had this problem with the previous infrastructure. Maybe the email clients tend to not send the second email to the From address when there is Reply-To. For example, the std-discussion and std-proposals mailing lists use this scheme: From: real original sender address To: mailing list address (e.g. "std-discussion@isocpp.org" ) Reply-To: mailing list address (e.g. std-discussion@isocpp.org) No Cc headers. Can we use this scheme?

On 21 March 2017 at 17:10, Steven Watanabe via Boost wrote:

AMDG

<snip>

In Christ, Steven Watanabe

IMHO the boost mailing list should be free of political and/or religious expressions. Maybe nobody else minds, but I do mind (I'm happy to elaborate, if required). Steven, please refrain from expressing your personal beliefs in every mail you send to a mailing list dealing with boost and c++ and limit the contents to those 2 subjects. degski

-----Original Message----- From: Boost [mailto:boost-bounces@lists.boost.org] On Behalf Of degski via Boost Sent: 21 March 2017 23:19 To: boost Cc: degski Subject: Re: [boost] [mailing list] No Reply-To in messages?

On 21 March 2017 at 17:10, Steven Watanabe via Boost wrote:

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AMDG

<snip>

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In Christ, Steven Watanabe

IMHO the boost mailing list should be free of political and/or religious expressions. Maybe nobody else minds, but I do mind (I'm happy to elaborate, if required). Steven, please refrain from expressing your personal beliefs in every mail you send to a mailing list dealing with boost and c++ and limit the contents to those 2 subjects.

Boost is mostly a tolerant crowd? Paul

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 2:11 AM, Niall Douglas via Boost wrote:

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Still, I've never had this problem with the previous infrastructure. Maybe the email clients tend to not send the second email to the From address when there is Reply-To. For example, the std-discussion and std-proposals mailing lists use this scheme:

From: real original sender address To: mailing list address (e.g. "std-discussion@isocpp.org" ) Reply-To: mailing list address (e.g. std-discussion@isocpp.org)

No Cc headers.

Can we use this scheme?

That was the previous scheme which caused the DMARC failure because DMARC won't allow this ML to send email From: an address it does not own.

Well, I'm not sure I understand the details, but I can see the problems with DMARC were resolved for isocpp.org lists at some point: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/boost-steering/EcKn2yA9ip4 And I can see that now the emails from those lists contain the original sender address in the From header. I'm not sure how exactly that was achieved, but I would like this list behave the same way.

Regarding your problems, I'm on Thunderbird and I'm finding no problem at all with the new ML config. Somebody obviously told Thunderbird about the new munging option for Mailman and it all "just works".

The real problem seems to me to be gmail having stupid handling.

As I understand, this is not a client problem per se, since it is supposed to add CC to a reply when the user hits Reply All. Just as the mail server is supposed to deliver the message to all recipients. It so happens that mail delivery between gmail accounts sometimes happens faster than the roundtrip between gmail and the ML server, which makes the email from the ML a duplicate and lost. You're not seeing the problem probably because there are no other participants from nedprod.com, so the problem is less likely to appear for you.

On 3/26/2017 8:58 PM, Andrey Semashev via Boost wrote:

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 2:57 AM, Andrey Semashev wrote:

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On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 2:11 AM, Niall Douglas via Boost wrote:

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Still, I've never had this problem with the previous infrastructure. Maybe the email clients tend to not send the second email to the From address when there is Reply-To. For example, the std-discussion and std-proposals mailing lists use this scheme:

From: real original sender address To: mailing list address (e.g. "std-discussion@isocpp.org" ) Reply-To: mailing list address (e.g. std-discussion@isocpp.org)

No Cc headers.

Can we use this scheme?

That was the previous scheme which caused the DMARC failure because DMARC won't allow this ML to send email From: an address it does not own.

Well, I'm not sure I understand the details, but I can see the problems with DMARC were resolved for isocpp.org lists at some point:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/boost-steering/EcKn2yA9ip4

And I can see that now the emails from those lists contain the original sender address in the From header. I'm not sure how exactly that was achieved, but I would like this list behave the same way.

Ping?

The mailing lists for std-discussion and std-proposals are not run by isocpp.org but by google groups. The ones affected by DMARC were the WG21 lists. Regards, -- Agustín K-ballo Bergé http://talesofcpp.fusionfenix.com

On 3/26/17 16:58, Andrey Semashev via Boost wrote:

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 2:57 AM, Andrey Semashev wrote:

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On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 2:11 AM, Niall Douglas via Boost wrote:

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Still, I've never had this problem with the previous infrastructure. Maybe the email clients tend to not send the second email to the From address when there is Reply-To. For example, the std-discussion and std-proposals mailing lists use this scheme:

From: real original sender address To: mailing list address (e.g. "std-discussion@isocpp.org" ) Reply-To: mailing list address (e.g. std-discussion@isocpp.org)

No Cc headers.

Can we use this scheme?

That was the previous scheme which caused the DMARC failure because DMARC won't allow this ML to send email From: an address it does not own.

Well, I'm not sure I understand the details, but I can see the problems with DMARC were resolved for isocpp.org lists at some point:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/boost-steering/EcKn2yA9ip4

And I can see that now the emails from those lists contain the original sender address in the From header. I'm not sure how exactly that was achieved, but I would like this list behave the same way.

Ping? I can see other people also having problems with the current setup. Is there someone specific I should ask for help with this matter? Any ticket/issue/request system?

Are you referring to receiving two messages (one from the CC and one from the ML) with gmail unable to figure out what to make of it as the problem? What other problems are people having? I see other people had issues with their mail client setup. -- Michael Caisse Ciere Consulting ciere.com

On 03/27/17 04:50, Michael Caisse via Boost wrote:

On 3/26/17 16:58, Andrey Semashev via Boost wrote:

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On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 2:57 AM, Andrey Semashev wrote:

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On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 2:11 AM, Niall Douglas via Boost wrote:

...

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Still, I've never had this problem with the previous infrastructure. Maybe the email clients tend to not send the second email to the From address when there is Reply-To. For example, the std-discussion and std-proposals mailing lists use this scheme:

From: real original sender address To: mailing list address (e.g. "std-discussion@isocpp.org" ) Reply-To: mailing list address (e.g. std-discussion@isocpp.org)

No Cc headers.

Can we use this scheme?

That was the previous scheme which caused the DMARC failure because DMARC won't allow this ML to send email From: an address it does not own.

Well, I'm not sure I understand the details, but I can see the problems with DMARC were resolved for isocpp.org lists at some point:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/boost-steering/EcKn2yA9ip4

And I can see that now the emails from those lists contain the original sender address in the From header. I'm not sure how exactly that was achieved, but I would like this list behave the same way.

Ping? I can see other people also having problems with the current setup. Is there someone specific I should ask for help with this matter? Any ticket/issue/request system?

Are you referring to receiving two messages (one from the CC and one from the ML) with gmail unable to figure out what to make of it as the problem?

Yes. At least, that's my understanding of the problem.

What other problems are people having? I see other people had issues with their mail client setup.

I mean, people other than me are having the problem with two emails. Ion's problem with the address book is also worth noting because I see nothing wrong with having the list address in the address book. If the real sender address was in the From header, this problem wouldn't have occurred.

Boost - Dev mailing list wrote

What other problems are people having?

Nabble now shows every message's author as "Boost - Dev mailing list". I haven't found any way tofind out the real author in Nabble when there is no signature. -- View this message in context: http://boost.2283326.n4.nabble.com/mailing-list-No-Reply-To-in-messages-tp46... Sent from the Boost - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

On 03/27/17 17:02, Michael Caisse via Boost wrote:

On 3/27/17 02:05, Marcel Raad via Boost wrote:

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Boost - Dev mailing list wrote

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What other problems are people having?

Nabble now shows every message's author as "Boost - Dev mailing list". I haven't found any way tofind out the real author in Nabble when there is no signature.

That is super annoying. Let me see what other things we can do.

Any news about this?

On 04/05/17 17:01, Olaf van der Spek wrote:

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 3:59 PM, Andrey Semashev via Boost wrote:

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On 03/27/17 17:02, Michael Caisse via Boost wrote:

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On 3/27/17 02:05, Marcel Raad via Boost wrote:

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Boost - Dev mailing list wrote

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What other problems are people having?

Nabble now shows every message's author as "Boost - Dev mailing list". I haven't found any way tofind out the real author in Nabble when there is no signature.

That is super annoying. Let me see what other things we can do.

Any news about this?

"Reply-To: boost@lists.boost.org" is there but if I use Reply All you'll receive a direct message that'll (probably) not have the Reply-To header.

Yes, that's what I'm seeing (including your message). I was interested if there was any progress in solving this problem.

On 04/05/17 21:16, Olaf van der Spek wrote:

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 5:03 PM, Andrey Semashev via Boost wrote:

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Any news about this?

"Reply-To: boost@lists.boost.org" is there but if I use Reply All you'll receive a direct message that'll (probably) not have the Reply-To header.

Yes, that's what I'm seeing (including your message).

I was interested if there was any progress in solving this problem.

What possible solutions exist? Reply-To is there..

The solution is to set From to the original sender and remove the CC. Use some other workaround to pass DMARC checks.

On 04/05/17 21:24, Olaf van der Spek wrote:

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 8:23 PM, Andrey Semashev wrote:

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On 04/05/17 21:16, Olaf van der Spek wrote:

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On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 5:03 PM, Andrey Semashev via Boost wrote:

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...

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Any news about this?

"Reply-To: boost@lists.boost.org" is there but if I use Reply All you'll receive a direct message that'll (probably) not have the Reply-To header.

Yes, that's what I'm seeing (including your message).

I was interested if there was any progress in solving this problem.

What possible solutions exist? Reply-To is there..

The solution is to set From to the original sender and remove the CC. Use

Then Reply All would still reply directly to the sender wouldn't it?

It didn't previously. As I understand it, Reply all sends messages to Reply-To or From and all CCs. I'm not familiar with the involved RFCs though.

On 22/03/2017 0:11, Niall Douglas via Boost wrote:

Regarding your problems, I'm on Thunderbird and I'm finding no problem at all with the new ML config. Somebody obviously told Thunderbird about the new munging option for Mailman and it all "just works".

The real problem seems to me to be gmail having stupid handling.

I'm also on Thunderbird (Windows), but using NTTP via Gname, and only Boost.build shows "Joe Coder via Boost list" in the From column. All other lists show only the boost mailing list address, which is really annoying and makes difficult to follow the discussion. I've reviewed the raw headers and the "Joe Coder via xxx" From field is there but for some reason I can't understand yet my thunderbird configuration does not like it and show only the mailing list address in the From column of the NTTP. Best, Ion

On 24/03/2017 9:04, Olaf van der Spek via Boost wrote:

The email address is boost@lists.boost.org in all cases, is that address in your TB address book? Different names with the same email address might confuse TB.

Awesome. The list address was in the address book with boost at etc.. name. Deleting all boost entries from the "collected" addresses makes "Joe Coder via Boost" visible. That also explains why boost build list was not having problems (this address was not in the address book). Many thanks, Ion