Re: [boost] [VS2017][release] vswhere.exe

On 4/6/17 7:40 AM, Andrey Semashev via Boost wrote:

On 04/06/17 16:54, Paul A. Bristow via Boost wrote:

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-----Original Message----- From: Boost [mailto:boost-bounces@lists.boost.org] On Behalf Of degski via Boost Sent: 06 April 2017 14:19 To: boost Cc: degski Subject: Re: [boost] [VS2017][release] vswhere.exe

On 5 April 2017 at 20:23, Tom Kent via Boost wrote:

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That doesn't help us for the installs of VS2017 that are already out there and may not see updates. We definitely can't depend on users getting the VS update in a timely manner.

To those users that are unable to use google, unable to click a link and download an executable, and those who don't understand what "put the executable in your path" means, the use of most boost libraries is most probably above their pay-grade anyway. You're looking for nails at low tide...

I disagree - MS IDE users expect it all to 'just work' from the IDE.

They rightly don't expect to mess about with funny paths and hideous command windows.

While I generally agree that the simpler installation and use process the better, a developer who haven't heard of PATH or command line is not a developer.

MS has brought the mess with toolset location on its users. We can do only so much to not make things worse from our end. Giving simple instructions to follow is IMHO enough.

An interesting little thread which goes to a large problem with software of all kinds today. The problem is software which "usually works", "mostly works", "can be made to work", etc. Rather than "works" or "just works". tl;dr; If I'm working on a command line system it generally works as advertised. I have to be pretty specific and coordinating all the resources - libraries, compilers, debugging documentation, information lookup while coding, etc. all has to be done "by hand". I have to lookup command syntax all the time. It's straightforward but can be (very) tedious. Enter the IDE, it integrates all the above in a slick package. Very cool and slick - got to love it.... Until - I need something and I can't find it !. It can be hours searching for menus for the proper setting, or tweaking paths, or any number of things. So now I'm back in to spending time on a bunch of stuff I had started using the IDE to avoid! Now I'm told that if I'm a real developer, I should know all this other stuff - That is, it's my fault! The IDE maker has the solution - make the package even more comprehensive and opaque - (that is, "user friendly"). This usually means having deeper menus and settings sprinkled all over the place. This compounds the problem rather than addressing it. The real solution is to spend more time thinking about the IDE and it's design so that there is more of a direct link from what I want to what I do. But programmers don't want to do this. They just want to add more code. When ever there's a complaint - we'll fix it with more code, more settings, more "smart"/"automatic"/"environmentally aware" behavior, etc. Of course it's not just the IDE it's everything websites, apps, everything. Look at our own tools - they're more obscure than the problems they are trying to address. (Include CMake and other build tools as well). The only real solution is more literate programmers, more feedback from users, and more willingness on the part of programmers to accept the fact that if it doesn't work for the user - the job isn't done. A program is not just a collection of random features but needs to embody a logical concept that the human brain can capture. Robert Ramey