Re: [boost] Build Boost Back Better

Hello, I’d like to resurface this thread. There’s a lot of potential here. Alan’s synthesis is clear and actionable. It seems to me that the least controversial improvement we can make is this:

- Pivot in the direction of more user-facing utilities

- +1 Graphics clients, window managers, audio I/O

- +1 Boost is great for supplying nuts and bolts, but it's light on turnkey application frameworks

WL

On Apr 7, 2022, at 2:40 PM, Alan de Freitas via Boost wrote:

Hi,

I've attempted to synthesize this discussion so we might find holes in our divergencies or come up with something more actionable.

- This list does not represent my opinions. I marked things mentioned as pros and cons with +1/-1. This is also how I interpreted the comments and not my opinion. - As with any synthesis, there is going to be some error. I'm sorry if I misrepresented some opinions by mistake. - Solutions are not exclusive and not exhaustive.

## Communication

Problems mentioned:

- Declining activity in the mailing list

- Balkanization of Boost

Proposed solutions:

- Mailing list

- +1 The medium is not necessarily the problem

- -1 Declining activity already

- -1 Discussions about libraries are already on Github

- -1 Instant discussions are already on Slack

- -1 _Some_ non-per-library discussions are already on Reddit

- -1 Feels link 20-years ago tech

- +1 Discussion comes to the subscribers

- +1 Simplifies local archives and one can use tools of choice

- -1 Inability to have nicely formatted code

- -1 Inability to have embedded godbolt preview

- +1 It doesn’t interrupt you when “new stuff is available”

- Forum based solution

- +1 Friendlier from the user perspective

- +1 Allows one to subscribe to topics of interest

- +1 Discussion also comes to the subscribers

- -1 Some find forums inferior to mailing lists

- -1 Not everything can be solved by new and shiny tools

- -1 People have already moved discussions to Github

- +1 Newcomers prefer the web

- -1 People need to subscribe to topics

- -1 Integration with email involves lots of important details

- -1 Centralized services might limit access based on the user's region

- -1 Forums might require javascript to load content

- Some form of social media management

Related points

- Getting reviews pumping should incentivize communication

## Promotion

Problems mentioned:

- Necessity to highlight once again the important role that Boost serves in the C++ community

- Newcomers can't figure out where to ask for help and report problems.

- Newcomers find it easier to find support on Reddit, Gitter, Github, or slack, than on the mailing list.

Proposed solutions:

- Website

- +1 Make boost.org more modern and relevant

- -1 Not everything can be solved by new and shiny tools

- -1 Not many people decide not to use Boost because of the website

- +1 Could simplify involvement for newcomers

- Use boost projects for website backend

- -1 May not be the most efficient

- -1 Off-the-shelf software parts are widely understood

- Some type of campaign

- Identify metrics of success

- Number of installs

- Number of programs using Boost

- Participation

- Quantify where the participants have gone

- People go to std:: mailing lists with their ideas and bypass boost

- People go to Github, have their ideas available, bypass the review, and avoid changing things.

## Contributions and Proposals

Problems mentioned:

- No high-impact library creation and adoption

- High barrier to getting involved

- Libraries are either too well-written (beast) to contribute

- Libraries are too domain-specific (math libraries) to contribute

- There is no clear flow to do small improvements

- Contributors don't know what libs are dead and which are not

- Contributors don't know what are good issues for casual participants

- Unmaintained libraries and PRs that get ignored

- Contributors' lack of time

- You are not going to attract new people by making them use ancient standards

- Not enough women

Proposed solutions:

- Pivot in the direction of more user-facing utilities

- +1 Graphics clients, window managers, audio I/O

- +1 Boost is great for supplying nuts and bolts, but it's light on turnkey application frameworks

- Pivot in the direction of more embedded utilities

- GPIO, SPI, and I2C

- Drawing in young engineers with fresh ideas and free time

- Somebody making that happen

- Create a list of open questions

- Spend time at conferences cajoling people to act as review managers

- +1 Good opportunity to find people

- -1 Boost should not be "two-tier" i.e. those with travel budgets and those without

- Involve more women: Cold-call a colleague or a mailing list participant

- -1 Gender has no bearing in the Boost community

- -1 Information about a C++ contributor other than their code is irrelevant

- +1 Ignoring this as an issue is being "fine" with the "status quo"

- -1 It segregates people by qualities irrelevant to the community

- -1 It introduces a social divide

- -1 It takes away from the community's efficiency

- -1 The problems mentioned might not apply to online discussions

- -1 It abandons merit as the most important value

- -1 There's no reason to follow other organization's value system

- +1 There could be efforts to make any open-source community more welcoming

## Review

Problems mentioned:

- Declining level of participation as reviewers

- Difficulty to find a review manager

- Newcomers don't understand the review process, although others do

- Newcomers don't understand the process to become a maintainer

Proposed solutions:

- Somebody making that happen

Related problems:

- Requires new attractive proposals

...

On Thu, 7 Apr 2022 at 10:36, Adam Wulkiewicz via Boost < boost@lists.boost.org> wrote:

W dniu 07.04.2022 o 15:32, Mateusz Loskot via Boost pisze:

...

...

Although, I think (or hope) that we can all agree that there could be efforts to make most any open-source community be more welcoming. Yes, let's identify and eliminate technical barriers and chores

On Thu, 7 Apr 2022 at 15:29, William Linkmeyer via Boost wrote: that work against growing participation by users and contributors. +1

Adam

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