- Boost - lists.preview.boost.org

Re: [boost] The Future of Boost - CI
by John Maddock 08 May '23

08 May '23

Vinnie, First of all, let me thank you for taking the time to write all this up, and put into words, probably what we've all been thinking! >Continuous Integration CI is wonderful, and horrible! The main issues I see are that: a) It needs continual maintenance, as the host runner upgrades/changes the systems they support. b) Stuff breaks without notice because we never know when the hosting CI service will change something. c) Knowledge of fairly obscure scripting is required to make the most of it. Strictly IMO, the issues that Robert Ramey was complaining about in CI recently were due to the above rather than anything wrong with the concept, or indeed Boost. So... in my ideal world Boost CI would look something like this: * The library author does nothing more than list (maybe in json or something similarly popular) the systems they want to test on - and these would be abstract Boost-wide names like "core", "bleeding edge", "legacy-msvc" etc. Exactly what these map to would be defined elsewhere. But the point is that now, library authors would almots never need to update their CI script *and* all Boost libraries get tested on the same "core" which would also form our release criteria. * Updates and changes to CI would be announced here first, if in doubt new compilers *might* go in "bleeding-edge" first and "core" a release later. Machine time could well be donated by volunteers and perhaps replace the current test/status matrix, which is fine, but requires you to go off seeking for results, which may or may not have cycled yet. Plus that matrix relies on a "build the whole of Boost" approach which increasingly simply does not scale. I'm hoping that approach might even allow us to diversify our testing somewhat - to pick a random example - Intel used to be very generous in proving us with compiler-licences to test with, but these are sadly incompatible with CI, but I suspect they would be compatible with individual testers acting as CI hosts though. I'm sure there are other examples: MSVC/GCC/Clang are not the only games in town. Best, John.

1 0

The Future of Boost
by Vinnie Falco 08 May '23

08 May '23

Greetings! I’m Vinnie Falco, Boost library author, C++ enthusiast, and the founder of The C++ Alliance, a 501(c)(3) non-profit. While some of you are enjoying the C++Now conference this week, I’d like to share some background on our organization, provide some history, outline a vision and goals for C++ and Boost, and solicit your feedback and support. How It Started I took notice of the C++ Standards Committee (“WG21”) while I was writing Boost.Beast in 2016. Howard Hinnant, a co-workers at Ripple, taught me about writing papers and committee meetings. Beast used Boost.Asio (portable networking for C++) and I was and still am a huge fan of this network library. I learned that Asio was being proposed for standardization. There was even a “Networking TS” document: Asio was very close to becoming part of C++ officially! But the author Christopher Kohlhoff always seemed to not have the time to attend the meetings and push this proposal though. Something which should not surprise anyone is that I despise paying taxes. In 2017, I had an idea: create a charitable organization which I can donate pre-tax income to, and then I could hire Christopher Kohlhoff as a “staff engineer” to work full time on C++ standardization, and Boost things! I would find the very best C++ people who are already doing open source work, then hire them full-time so they could focus on their open source C++ open work from home, instead of traveling to a boring job in order to make a living. A Few Setbacks In 2018 I offered this opportunity to Chris and he surprisingly turned it down. He actually liked going into an office and interacting with customers and users. He explained that the evolution of Asio and his WG21 work is not bottlenecked by time. Instead, he prefers to “think deeply about things over a long period, and then write something.” Basically the opposite of my strategy, which is to write a bunch of code quickly and then throw out the bad parts. This is a setback but I am not so easily deterred so I offered the same opportunity to Peter Dimov, an engineer of immense talent whose libraries are legendary. He also declined, explaining that taking a salary would transform a hobby into an obligation, affecting the quality and enjoyment of the work. Now I’m thinking, well this is a disaster! We had the non-profit in operation officially since March of 2018 (the IRS approved us in September of 2019). We had the C++ language Slack workspace as of November of 2017, transitioned to a paid plan with full history. Our strategy shifted to focus on supporting the Boost Library Collection directly. We hired our first Staff Engineer, Marshall Clow, in April of 2018. Fast forward and today we have 11 staff members. We have a great CTO/DevOps genius Sam Darwin. And we have Louis Tatta, our CEO that keeps things running smoothly and helps get the most out of every dollar donated. At some point I’ll share a complete list of everything that The C++ Alliance has done since the beginning, but that is the subject of another missive. Today I would like to talk about a vision for Boost. The Boost Library Collection Long-timers know Boost’s history but for those that don’t, Beman Dawes and Robert Klarer came up with the idea of a website offering curated, high quality C++ libraries in May of 1998. They described the “Formal Review,” a social technology where a group of peers would go over a proposed library at an agreed-upon time. They could interrogate the author about the library on the mailing list, and debate things. The outcome is a collection of posts where each reviewer summarizes their critique of the library, including whether or not to “accept” the library (sometimes with conditions). The founding documenting evokes a feeling of something big: https://www.boost.org/users/proposal.pdf The collection was named “Boost” and received many great contributions. The authors and reviewers were active in the standardization committee. In December of 2005, Boost.Asio was added after being developed since 2003. In September of 2011 the C++11 standard was published, containing many library components modeled closely or identically to their Boost counterparts. In my opinion, Asio’s efforts at standardization were thwarted by the growth of politics; an inevitable consequence of the bureaucratic ISO structure. Boost launched its own conference called BoostCon in 2007 on the heels of its success. Speakers included Scott Meyers, Dave Abrahams, Eric Niebler, Howard Hinnant, and other juggernauts of C++. A new conference called CppCon was launched in 2014 and attracted even larger crowds, as it was focused on C++ in general. Trouble Brewing With the release of C++11, there were now components in Boost which were duplicated in the Standard Library. The C++ committee became more popular and valuable owing to the success of C++11, made possible in part by years of lead-up from the talented Boost engineers. The conferences turned some people into the equivalent of pop stars, appearing as staple keynote speakers. Library writers discovered it was easier to get a proposal into the C++ standard than it was to get a library through the Formal Review process. They discovered that there was more glory to have a proposal accepted into the official C++ language, than to have their library accepted into Boost. And once their proposal became part of C++, they no longer had to “maintain their code” the way they would if their library got in Boost. A Formal Review evaluates the author somewhat in addition to the library. Because once a library is accepted, it must be maintained and evolved. When an author abandons their Boost library, the community is impoverished as the knowledge and expertise leaves with them. And someone else must take over the maintenance. In December of 2020, Beman Dawes passed away and Boost suffered a loss which can never be replaced. Beman had an enormous impact on not just the libraries but also C++. He was in WG21 from the very beginning, chaired LWG (the “Library Working Group”) for quite some time, and achieved a long history of open source contributions. Boost had other problems. Fewer libraries were being proposed, and it took longer to find a volunteer review manager. Mailing list volume declined steadily. At 160+ libraries, users complained that “Boost is too large.” They complained that “many of the libraries are outdated”, that “the documentation is of varying quality”, and that “Boost takes too long to compile.” They complained about the obscure build system and lack of cmake support. The archetype of “never Booster” appeared: individuals or corporations who ban the use of Boost entirely. Beman was the closest thing resembling a leader, despite Boost being a federation of authors with each having final word over their own library. Beman would solve problems, help with the direction of things, and even “beat the bushes” when it was time for a review by reaching out to his network of contacts and soliciting their participation. Without Beman, Boost lost its leader. Boost lost its Great Founder. And no one has since filled the role. The C++ Alliance At this point, a vision for what our non-profit could do crystallized. We would help C++ in general by refreshing the foundations of Boost, restoring Boost’s prominence in the community, and helping Boost become a leader once again as innovators in C++. To do this, I'll share what we feel are the problems facing Boost, and ways to address some of them. Finally I'd like you to weigh in on all of this and help figure out what is important and what successful execution might look like. We believe Boost faces these obstacles: Stagnation * There are fewer new libraries proposed. * Formal reviews get less participation. * Review managers are typically scarce now. * The mailing list volume is thinning; younger folks don’t use lists. * There is no second order effect: new libraries rarely use Boost. Quality * Some libraries are unmaintained and create a negative user experience. * Users open issues, and no one replies to them. * Pull requests are submitted to abandoned repositories. * Scant financial resources for infrastructure or staff. Documentation * The quality of documentation varies greatly across libraries. * The rendered pages and content of some documentation looks dated. * Some toolchains used are obscure and unmaintained. Perception * Boost causes long compile times. * The libraries have too many interdependencies * Supporting old C++ versions is a weakness not a strength. * The duplication of std components is wasteful and causes friction. * The “Monolithic” distribution of Boost is obsolete. Messaging * The website is outdated and never receives updates. * Boost’s value proposition is not clear (“why use boost?”) * There is no clear voice countering misconceptions and irrational phobias. * Users receive no guidance about the future, or what is maintained. * The libraries have no representation at conferences. Some users have also weighed in with thoughts on Boost: https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/gfowpq/why_you_dont_use_boost/ A Plan I love C++, supporting users, and the Boost author experience. I think these problems can be solved. But not by demanding that “everyone who maintains a Boost library must do X.” In Boost culture when you want something done you need to do it yourself, then convince the mailing list of the merits of your proposal. As a library author and contributor, I know that whatever I do will never rise to the same level as the original act of the creation of the Boost Library Collection. But I will be satisfied if I can stoke its fires and bring them back to a roar. To this end the resources of the non-profit are directed into projects we believe will positively affect Boost: Website Renovation Our vision for an updated Boost website is clean and stylish, which speaks to a large and diverse audience. This site will have a design and content that effectively communicates the value proposition of using the Boost Library Collection: that you will write better C++ code, become more productive, and achieve greater success in your career or personal projects. Features will foster participation and revisits, with content updated regularly. The library presentation is elevated with a new visual design language that evokes distinction and appeal, and credits the authors, maintainers, and contributors that bring it to life. To achieve this vision, you have probably heard that we contracted an outside software firm to build something precisely tailored for our needs. We care too much about Boost to use an ill-fitted, off the shelf product. This website has a lot of software behind it (written in Python as part of a Django framework application) and like most software projects it is late and over budget. I’ll refrain from saying “it’ll be ready soon” and just post a link to the new site instead, hopefully in a few weeks. I have been personally involved in the design, presentation, and execution of the features of the website, most of which have been cut from the initial release in order to speed things along. The goal is to show the library collection in a way that highlights its strengths and speaks to a desire of every C++ programmer: to find the perfect library they can add as a dependency to help complete their next project. The Boost website and the site documentation can be illustrated by retaining a talented digital artist to produce custom assets that are unified in style, colors, and messaging, so that the entire site feels purposeful. This artist will also provide imagery used for our social media campaigns such as the announcements we make on Twitter which some of you might have already seen https://twitter.com/Boost_Libraries. I strive to give every tweet an image to enhance the Boost brand (tweets with images have significantly increased engagement). Recently an animated discussion on the mailing list took place about adding a forum which does not replace the mailing list but is integrated to work with it. Posts in the forum become posts to the mailing list, and vice versa. Users of the mailing list and users of the forum will have no idea they are interacting, even though they are. This can only be possible if we write the software ourselves, from the ground up, with exactly one constraint: the mailing list will continue to operate exactly as it does today, on an unmodified version of Mailman 3. The mailing list users stay happy, and we can attract new people who prefer a web-based interface. The C++ Alliance prioritizes its allocation of resources to ensure not only the website’s completion, but also dedicated staff for ongoing maintenance and improvement. The Boost website will rise over time to the same level of quality expected of every Boost library. Community members should feel free to open issues on the website repository with bugs or features, knowing that every issue will be looked at, triaged, and addressed appropriately. Documentation Improvement Our vision for documentation is to ensure that every Boost library has the option to adopt a well-maintained toolchain that is easily deployed, produces high-quality output befitting the Boost brand, is itself well-documented and easy to use, and has behind it full-time staff working continuously to make improvements and provide technical support. After researching the domain extensively (by just asking Peter Dimov) we have discovered that the markdown format Asciidoc is a very popular format with a simple and well maintained toolchain. Several regularly active Boost authors have already switched their libraries to using Asciidoctor. The authors of the Asciidoctor tool are also the authors of “Antora,” a modular, multi-repository documentation site generator: https://docs.antora.org/antora/latest/ We have built a new, modern set of additional scripts capable of building the Boost release and documentation, including the capability of rendering “Antora-enabled Boost library repositories” using this Antora system. The results are beautiful and modern, and the Asciidoctor / Antora toolchain holds the promise of being popular and well-maintained for a long time. The use of Asciidoc or Antora is optional; this is just an additional choice. Peter Turcan is our full-time Senior Technical Writer who is modernizing the instructions for users, maintainers, contributors, and formal review participants. You can see Peter’s work along with the quality of Antora’s output here (note that the user-interface is stock and will be restyled soon): https://docs.cppalliance.org/ The website above has a new full-text search feature (try it!). We are investing in a search experience which includes the site docs, library docs, library references, and even the public header files. We are also investing in the deployment of a large language model (ChatGPT-style AI) trained in Boost and C++ specifics to answer questions for users. We have a new talented and eager staff engineer working full-time exclusively on this, and I don’t want to steal his thunder so I will let him explain further soon. Some Boost libraries currently generate their documentation reference pages using Doxygen combined with other obscure tools such as xsltproc or Saxon-HE to render into Boost Quickbook, an obsolete form of markdown which only we use. This Quickbook is rendered into BoostBook, which is a flavor of DocBook. The BoostBook is converted into HTML by a DocBook renderer. This rapidly obsolescing toolchain is painful to work with and is a form of technical debt which costs us. I have begun work on a new command-line tool called MrDox (“mister docs”) which uses the unstable clang libtooling API to extract the documentation comments and declarations from C++ programs, and turn them into beautiful Asciidoc reference pages. You can see that work here: https://github.com/cppalliance/mrdox The core principles of the design of MrDox is to always understand the very latest C++ constructs and extract them with high fidelity. For example it recognizes conditional noexcept, constexpr, deduction guides, all attributes, and many other things that other documentation toolchains cannot fathom. In a nutshell I intend to bring the same level of Boost quality to the documentation toolchain that Boost has brought to the C++ libraries themselves. MrDox intends to completely replace Doxygen, xsltproc, Saxon-HE, Quickbook, Boostbook, and Docbook, as the only requirement to render its results is to run the Asciidoctor tool, which has no other dependencies. This toolchain offers modernization and simplification for anyone who opts-in to it, which reduces long-term risks and improves results. This unfortunately delays the development of my other libraries, but enhancements in the documentation toolchain are a force multiplier; many Boost libraries can benefit. Continuous Integration Our vision for continuous integration is to bring the most talented individuals together and combine that with state of the art technology and resources to ensure that every library has at its disposal, access to robust cloud services for continuous integration. These services are the lifeblood of maintaining and communicating the quality of a library. We aim to provide dedicated staff and technical support to fortify Boost in the ever-shifting landscape of free CI services for open source projects. The infrastructures providing our continuous integration services are the lifeblood of maintaining the high quality of the Boost collection. Library authors test against many versions of C++ and many different compiler versions. And we have many libraries; over 160 of them which all compete for the finite public resources offered by GitHub through GHA, through Azure Pipelines, or Appveyor. When Travis discontinued its free service, our CTO Sam Darwin deployed Drone (https://www.drone.io/) instances and offered every Boost library a pull request which compiles and runs their tests on our new infrastructure. Although this service is still active and offered today, we are not content to leave it at that. CI services are volatile over time. Some come, some go, and some become overloaded which is the current situation with the public GitHub Actions runners during peak times. The Boost organization GitHub account has over one hundred and sixty libraries each submitting sometimes enormous numbers of jobs which take multiple hours to complete. Although the GHA environment resources are subjected to recurring oversubscription, we feel that it offers the best framework for composable actions and flexibility. Sam is exploring the possibility of having self-hosted C++ Alliance runners dedicated only to Boost jobs during peak times. Ensuring high availability of CI resources is an ongoing project for us, and we are always evaluating existing and new solutions to provide the best-of-class choices for libraries. Library Enhancements Our vision for the libraries themselves is to preserve unchanged the amazing social technologies invented by the Boost founders which include the Formal Review process, the Release Schedule, the mailing list discussions, and the federated library ownership model. We want to ensure that no library is unmaintained and that every opened issue receives a response. We want the community to respect and admire the formal review process and participate with eagerness not only as reviewers but also as volunteer review managers and participants in the sometimes-heated list discussions. Library membership in the Boost library collection should be seen as the highest level of honor and recognition of effort. The C++ Alliance has ongoing direct investments in improving existing Boost libraries and writing new ones to be submitted for formal review. Many folks are already aware of the optimization efforts being applied to the Boost.Unordered library, whose plan was written up by Peter Dimov. Joaquín M López Muñoz is providing his mathematical expertise and container experience, while Christian Mazakas (one of our full-time staff engineers) is writing the implementation, tests, and documentation according to specification. People following Boost.Math might recognize Matt Borland as a regular contributor. He has joined us as a staff engineer and is currently working on a new library to be proposed for Boost: charconv, which is a C++11 port of the eponymous C++17 feature. This library will help libraries and users who may not have access to C++17 enjoy the same features through Boost instead. Messaging and Direction Our vision for Boost includes clear messaging to inform the public on the status of the libraries, the challenges we are facing, and what our future direction might be. We believe in robust two-way communication between library authors and maintainers, and the stakeholders which are largely the people and companies which use the Boost libraries. We believe in having a social media presence that helps convey the prestige and status that comes with the quality Boost libraries offer. Currently we have only anecdotal evidence of Boost’s adoption (or lack thereof) in various companies and projects. We only hear from the people who complain or open issues, or post to the mailing list. We do not have a concise list of companies using Boost, when new companies adopt Boost, or when companies stop using Boost. We do not have feedback from stakeholders about which Boost libraries they rely on the most, what they would like to see in future versions, or in some cases even if they are having problems with a library or its documentation. The decentralized model of Boost library development works great for the problems it tries to solve but offers no overall directional guidance for Boost. Today the C++ language is facing unprecedented challenges: the popularity of Rust, the demands for “memory safety”, the rise of Artificial Intelligence capable of writing software independently, and possibility that the bureaucratic structure of WG21 renders it incapable of meeting these challenges in a lively or effective manner. We believe that Boost can offer the greatest value by focusing in the areas where C++ is strong and without meaningful competition. These include space exploration, game development, high-performance computing, embedded systems, the Internet of Things, robotics and industrial process control, financial services, computer vision and graphics, scientific simulation, and more. Furthermore the stunning and continued lack of networking in the standard library creates an opportunity for Boost to offer full-stack solutions in areas that speak to the strengths of C++. This is made possible because Boost already offers portable networking through Asio, HTTP and Websocket through Beast, excellent JSON parsing and serialization tailored for network programs, URLs, and more recently a Redis client (Boost.Aedis) and even a MySQL / MariaDB client. We intend to sponsor the development of non-Boost, open source applications and services that target specific underserved markets that would benefit from C++ solutions which use the excellent libraries that exist in Boost. Where Do You Fit In? Our vision, our activity, and our deployed solutions are all “opt-in.” No one controls Boost or its libraries. Change is only possible with consensus of the folks that matter: authors, maintainers, and release managers. If Robert Ramey wants to keep his documentation in hand-written HTML that is entirely his choice; no one dictates what libraries do. We can only offer choices, and hope they will be seen as valuable. This has been a long read, and I appreciate your investment of time. How do you feel about this vision? What would you change, or add, and what needs work? We welcome feedback, and value the volunteers who share our vision and help us execute it. I invite you to stay tuned for more great news, coming soon! Respectfully Yours Vinnie Falco

1 0

Problem with homegrown. porting to ipv6
by Tarun Batra 08 May '23

08 May '23

Hi, I am doing a homegrown project, which i am adding support to ipv6 where i 2 different codes: *First code:* my_Acceptor = new tcp::acceptor(myService, tcp::endpoint(boost::asio::ip::address_v4::loopback(),port)); *Second code:* my_acceptor = new tcp::acceptor(myContext, tcp::endpoint(ifallowed ? boost::asio::ip::address_v4::any() : boost::asio::ip::address_v4::loopback(),port)); What I wanted to ask is, is there any way in boost by which we can first try things on ipv6 and if that doesn't work fall to ipv4. *Since it is just loopback address, is it a better way than this, for the first code* try{ my_Acceptor = new tcp::acceptor(myService, tcp::endpoint(boost::asio::ip::address_v6::loopback(),port)); } catch(boost::system::system_error& e) { printf("Error Starting on v6, trying on v4: %s\n", e.what()); } try{ my_Acceptor = new tcp::acceptor(myService, tcp::endpoint(boost::asio::ip::address_v4::loopback(),port)); } catch(boost::system::system_error& e) { printf("Error Starting on v4,: %s\n", e.what()); return; }

1 0

Re: [boost] Boost CI Infrastructure
by Ruben Perez 07 May '23

07 May '23

> > > 2. Standard "CI script"[2] that is used by all the C/C++ projects > instead of each projects doing their own thing. > Out of curiosity, would this allow me to run my integration tests, which require to set up a DB instance and load data before running tests? Regards, Ruben

2 2

Re: [boost] Amazon SES
by Sam Darwin 05 May '23

05 May '23

In retrospect it was an irresistible experiment to try out Amazon SES. The service seems to offer a large cost savings while also providing reliable mail delivery. However, here is a reply from the mailman-users list: "Amazon SES rewrites the Message-ID. Yep and for this reason I don't use it. The problem is worse in Mailman3 because it has a much more superior archive display which gets ruined when people reply to messages with different Message-Id headers and the threading can't be observed. I also had to use the anonymous mode with my list as Amazon didn't like me using random addresses in the From: header. I'm still looking for a tolerant mail gateway to use with Mailman." On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 5:27 PM Gavin Lambert via Boost <boost(a)lists.boost.org> wrote: > > Mere moments ago, quoth I: > > There's not too much problem if the first message id is rewritten > > (provided both mailman and SES agree on what it is, but that seems hard > > if mailman is earlier in the traffic chain, as appears to be the case). > > Actually, I take that back. Messages might be cross-posted to multiple > lists, in which case it's important that these all have the same message > id too. While *usually* they would all be Boost lists, that's not > necessarily the case, so the only correct choice is to not alter the > original message id. > > > _______________________________________________ > Unsubscribe & other changes: http://lists.boost.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/boost

1 0

Re: [boost] Amazon SES
by Gavin Lambert 04 May '23

04 May '23

Mere moments ago, quoth I: > There's not too much problem if the first message id is rewritten > (provided both mailman and SES agree on what it is, but that seems hard > if mailman is earlier in the traffic chain, as appears to be the case). Actually, I take that back. Messages might be cross-posted to multiple lists, in which case it's important that these all have the same message id too. While *usually* they would all be Boost lists, that's not necessarily the case, so the only correct choice is to not alter the original message id.

1 0

Re: [boost] Amazon SES
by Gavin Lambert 04 May '23

04 May '23

On 5/05/2023 04:40, Sam Darwin wrote: > Checking original messages locally in my inbox messages, it appears > mailgun doesn't rewrite the ID. SES rewrites the ID. Not an option to > disable it. I will open a discussion with mailman and see if they have > any suggestions. I think the only solution would be to get SES to stop doing that. Or to stop using SES if it can't. There's not too much problem if the first message id is rewritten (provided both mailman and SES agree on what it is, but that seems hard if mailman is earlier in the traffic chain, as appears to be the case). But for second and subsequent messages in the same thread, replies are often sent both to the list and to individual participants, and it's critically important that both of these copies have the identical message id both so that servers and clients recognise them as duplicates (and that one is safe to discard) and so that it doesn't matter which copy is replied to next. Changing the id is just poor netiquette, and it should only be done if the incoming email had a malformed id.

1 0

Boost::Regex support with ICU for unicode characters.
by Neha Patil 04 May '23

04 May '23

Hello, We are working with boost::regex library to have unicode support. I want to form a regex for validating unicode characters so I'm trying this with boost library. I am facing an issue with a boost library with ICU support so please suggest me how to proceed with the boost with ICU support. PFA for this. 1. *has_icu_builds* is used to enable icu support. [image: image.png] 2. on *b2 install* no icu is there, please let me know the procedure of how to enable icu. [image: image.png] Also I tried attaching the ICU library externally but it gives incorrect results for regex having character classes. PFA for this. [image: image.png][image: image.png] *NOTE *: Using 'Lo' character class as this class supports unicase alphabets. Kind Regards, Neha Patil.

1 1

Re: [boost] Q1 2023 Update: C++ Alliance's Efforts (PDF Attached)
by Daniela Engert 04 May '23

04 May '23

Am 04.05.2023 um 01:49 schrieb Gavin Lambert via Boost: > On 4/05/2023 03:55, Andrey Semashev wrote: >> The fact that the initial message is not part of the thread now is a >> relatively recent issue. This is the mailman archive from a year ago: >> >> https://lists.boost.org/Archives/boost/2022/04/index.php >> >> Threading is fine there. In fact, threading was working correctly as >> recently as in February 2023: >> >> https://lists.boost.org/Archives/boost/2023/02/index.php >> >> and has been broken in March: >> >> https://lists.boost.org/Archives/boost/2023/03/index.php >> >> If the system works (and worked) the way you describe, mailman was able >> to associate the initial message with the thread before and now it >> isn't. I suspect, this may have something to do with the headers that >> are added by SES to the messages it sends to the subscribers. > > Threading only sometimes works in the gmane view as well. Usually > it's not the mailing list itself at fault, but due to the mail client > used by the person posting -- or sometimes that they're replying to a > digest rather than the original mail, so the context headers are lost > (even if they edit it to look like it was a reply to a single post). > > I have noticed an apparent increase recently in the number of posts > that appear "flat" or semi-flat (still showing as a reply, but to a > grandparent post rather than the real parent post) -- but other recent > threads still do appear normally nested, so I don't think it's a > systemic issue. > I get the posts on the ML delivered as individual emails to my client (Thunderbird) and I can see the routing. Threading was fine until the end of February (through mailgun.net) and is broken since the beginning of March (through amazonses.com) The transition can be seen in the thread "Has testing on msvc been dropped?) in Tom Kent's posts. Dani -- PGP/GPG: 2CCB 3ECB 0954 5CD3 B0DB 6AA0 BA03 56A1 2C4638C5

1 0

Re: [boost] Boost.Compat
by Ruben Perez 04 May '23

04 May '23

> > > > So my suggestion is to create a separate library/repo, Boost.Compat > (boostorg/compat, namespace boost::compat) for them. > > Thoughts? (Be sure to read the discussion in the PR as well.) > I'm in favor of this. I agree with not allowing extensions, too. I think a light review should take place before inclusion. Regards, Ruben.

1 0

Re: [boost] Amazon SES
by Sam Darwin 04 May '23

04 May '23

Checking original messages locally in my inbox messages, it appears mailgun doesn't rewrite the ID. SES rewrites the ID. Not an option to disable it. I will open a discussion with mailman and see if they have any suggestions. On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 10:30 AM Andrey Semashev via Boost <boost(a)lists.boost.org> wrote: > > On 5/4/23 18:54, Sam Darwin via Boost wrote: > > The comments about Message-ID: , References: , and In-Reply-To: > > headers are very interesting. "The Amazon Simple Email Service (AWS > > SES) rewrites the Message-ID header of outgoing emails." > > Consider the very first email of a thread. It arrives at the mailman > > server with a Message-ID that mentions "gmail", for example, and is > > added to the Archives. The message is sent out to all list members, > > who see a new Message-id of > > ...010f0187dca41ec8(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com Later replies can set > > the In-Reply-To header to refer the "@us-east-2.amazonses.com" > > Message-ID. But the first archived message didn't yet have that ID, > > since it arrived directly at the server, not through SES. The mailman > > archives on lists.boost.org organize that first message in a separate > > thread, presumably based on the original Message-ID. > > Can we disable Message-ID rewriting? > > Do we know how mailgun works wrt. Message-ID and other headers? > > > _______________________________________________ > Unsubscribe & other changes: http://lists.boost.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/boost

1 0

Re: [boost] Amazon SES
by Andrey Semashev 04 May '23

04 May '23

On 5/4/23 18:54, Sam Darwin via Boost wrote: > The comments about Message-ID: , References: , and In-Reply-To: > headers are very interesting. "The Amazon Simple Email Service (AWS > SES) rewrites the Message-ID header of outgoing emails." > Consider the very first email of a thread. It arrives at the mailman > server with a Message-ID that mentions "gmail", for example, and is > added to the Archives. The message is sent out to all list members, > who see a new Message-id of > ...010f0187dca41ec8(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com Later replies can set > the In-Reply-To header to refer the "@us-east-2.amazonses.com" > Message-ID. But the first archived message didn't yet have that ID, > since it arrived directly at the server, not through SES. The mailman > archives on lists.boost.org organize that first message in a separate > thread, presumably based on the original Message-ID. Can we disable Message-ID rewriting? Do we know how mailgun works wrt. Message-ID and other headers?

1 0

Re: [boost] Amazon SES
by Sam Darwin 04 May '23

04 May '23

The comments about Message-ID: , References: , and In-Reply-To: headers are very interesting. "The Amazon Simple Email Service (AWS SES) rewrites the Message-ID header of outgoing emails." Consider the very first email of a thread. It arrives at the mailman server with a Message-ID that mentions "gmail", for example, and is added to the Archives. The message is sent out to all list members, who see a new Message-id of ...010f0187dca41ec8(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com Later replies can set the In-Reply-To header to refer the "@us-east-2.amazonses.com" Message-ID. But the first archived message didn't yet have that ID, since it arrived directly at the server, not through SES. The mailman archives on lists.boost.org organize that first message in a separate thread, presumably based on the original Message-ID.

1 0

Re: [boost] Q1 2023 Update: C++ Alliance's Efforts (PDF Attached)
by Vinnie Falco 04 May '23

04 May '23

On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 11:44 PM Julien Blanc via Boost <boost(a)lists.boost.org> wrote: > the "replacing the ML with a forum" That's not happening, no one is replacing the ML, and our efforts to renovate the Boost website have exactly one overarching principle: "Do not fuck with the mailing lists" The mailing lists must not be touched, they need to work exactly the way they did before (with working threading). Thanks

1 0

Re: [boost] Q1 2023 Update: C++ Alliance's Efforts (PDF Attached)
by Julien Blanc 04 May '23

04 May '23

Le 2023-05-03 15:02, Sam Darwin via Boost a écrit : > Mailgun has been in production for many years. It costs $500 per month > to send smtp messages. It's a reasonable idea to try out another > service that's only 5% of the cost. Thanks for the detailed answer. From what is seen, it does indeed looks like amazon ses is sending emails with different message ids to each participant in the mailing list. Mailgun, on the other hand, was keeping the original message id in the email. > But at the same time, it's not impossible to switch back to mailgun, > if threading is partially disrupted, and we can't find a solution. Now that the source of the problem has been identified, i hope a solution can be found. Like Phil noted, mailgun is indeed very expensive. Best regards, Julien

1 0

Re: [boost] Q1 2023 Update: C++ Alliance's Efforts (PDF Attached)
by Andrey Semashev 04 May '23

04 May '23

On 5/4/23 10:20, Gavin Lambert via Boost wrote: > On 4/05/2023 18:34, Julien Blanc wrote: >> You're luckier than me. The current thread is semi-broken, but the >> "replacing the ML with a forum" one is completely broken for me. > > Sorry, that was sloppy reporting on my part. There was a large tree of > posts that were all together so I foolishly assumed that this was the > whole thread. > > There were *also* a bunch of disconnected replies earlier on, but since > these were completely disconnected they didn't "follow" the parent > higher in the list since I'm sorting by date. This meant they were out > of sight at the time I was thinking about this and writing my message. > >> I'm starting to wonder if we all receive the same emails (in the sense >> that they may not contain the same set of headers). For me, the >> initial message of Vinnie in the "replacing the ML with a forum" >> thread contains the following: >> >> Message-ID: >> <010f0187bde5599a-e76c27f2-225d-4d7e-b2c8-887e3a07ecb8-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> >> >> But Mashshall's answer, on the other side, contains the following >> headers : >> >> References: >> <010f0187bde530fb-ff3c1911-df7d-4399-b5d2-82f8062bf18c-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> >> In-Reply-To: >> <010f0187bde530fb-ff3c1911-df7d-4399-b5d2-82f8062bf18c-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> >> >> The "In-Reply-To" should match the Id of the initial message, for >> threading to work correctly. This is too obvious to be a client bug. >> Can someone check the Message-ID he has for the initial message of >> Vinnie in the "replacing the ML with a forum" thread? If it's >> different from mine, then that's probably the source of the issues. > > For me (via gmane), Vinnie's original message has: > > Message-ID: > <010f0187bde523cc-f60c3688-3843-44d4-b848-f37b2fd6a598-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> > > And Marshall's reply (did not thread properly) has: > > Message-ID: > <010f0187bde8bc2e-bebb94d1-2dfb-4165-ad8d-6af8e9b41381-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> > References: > <010f0187bde530fb-ff3c1911-df7d-4399-b5d2-82f8062bf18c-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> > In-Reply-To: > <010f0187bde530fb-ff3c1911-df7d-4399-b5d2-82f8062bf18c-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> > > Robert's reply (did thread properly) has: > > Message-ID: > <010f0187bf4b951d-1f6d7af8-3f2e-458b-9ffd-ca91ecfe04f9-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> > References: > <010f0187bde523cc-f60c3688-3843-44d4-b848-f37b2fd6a598-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> > In-Reply-To: > <010f0187bde523cc-f60c3688-3843-44d4-b848-f37b2fd6a598-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> > > These do indeed seem to be different from yours, which is unfortunate. > > It would be good if someone else not using gmane could check both > results as well (although that shouldn't be a factor, as I have other > groups that don't appear to be getting flattening). I'm reading the ML in Thunderbird. Vinnie's initial message has: Message-ID: <010f0187bde531b6-2cd00e40-57e1-476f-b30d-896ff8eab806-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> Marshall's reply: References: <010f0187bde530fb-ff3c1911-df7d-4399-b5d2-82f8062bf18c-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <010f0187bde530fb-ff3c1911-df7d-4399-b5d2-82f8062bf18c-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> Message-ID: <010f0187bde8ccef-31042da0-3d20-4f4a-95e8-74cd3770cc89-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> Robert's reply: Message-ID: <010f0187bf4ba591-77f55894-1b8b-40d4-b8ac-0d6af2b9ba6d-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> References: <010f0187bde523cc-f60c3688-3843-44d4-b848-f37b2fd6a598-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <010f0187bde523cc-f60c3688-3843-44d4-b848-f37b2fd6a598-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> For me, both Marshall's and Robert's replies, which are direct replies to the initial Vinnie's post, start their own threads with their subtrees of replies. The only descendant of the Vinnie's initial post is my own reply to it, which has this: Message-ID: <187be1c7608.280f.fb49792bc380c7e55e30f872b414f11c(a)gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <010f0187bde531b6-2cd00e40-57e1-476f-b30d-896ff8eab806-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> References: <010f0187bde531b6-2cd00e40-57e1-476f-b30d-896ff8eab806-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> So basically, every direct reply to the original post, except my own one, is a separate subtree (or a single out-of-tree message if there were no replies to it).

1 0

Re: [boost] Q1 2023 Update: C++ Alliance's Efforts (PDF Attached)
by Gavin Lambert 04 May '23

04 May '23

On 4/05/2023 18:34, Julien Blanc wrote: > You're luckier than me. The current thread is semi-broken, but the > "replacing the ML with a forum" one is completely broken for me. Sorry, that was sloppy reporting on my part. There was a large tree of posts that were all together so I foolishly assumed that this was the whole thread. There were *also* a bunch of disconnected replies earlier on, but since these were completely disconnected they didn't "follow" the parent higher in the list since I'm sorting by date. This meant they were out of sight at the time I was thinking about this and writing my message. > I'm starting to wonder if we all receive the same emails (in the sense > that they may not contain the same set of headers). For me, the initial > message of Vinnie in the "replacing the ML with a forum" thread contains > the following: > > Message-ID: > <010f0187bde5599a-e76c27f2-225d-4d7e-b2c8-887e3a07ecb8-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> > > But Mashshall's answer, on the other side, contains the following headers : > > References: > <010f0187bde530fb-ff3c1911-df7d-4399-b5d2-82f8062bf18c-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> > In-Reply-To: > <010f0187bde530fb-ff3c1911-df7d-4399-b5d2-82f8062bf18c-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> > > The "In-Reply-To" should match the Id of the initial message, for > threading to work correctly. This is too obvious to be a client bug. Can > someone check the Message-ID he has for the initial message of Vinnie in > the "replacing the ML with a forum" thread? If it's different from mine, > then that's probably the source of the issues. For me (via gmane), Vinnie's original message has: Message-ID: <010f0187bde523cc-f60c3688-3843-44d4-b848-f37b2fd6a598-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> And Marshall's reply (did not thread properly) has: Message-ID: <010f0187bde8bc2e-bebb94d1-2dfb-4165-ad8d-6af8e9b41381-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> References: <010f0187bde530fb-ff3c1911-df7d-4399-b5d2-82f8062bf18c-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <010f0187bde530fb-ff3c1911-df7d-4399-b5d2-82f8062bf18c-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> Robert's reply (did thread properly) has: Message-ID: <010f0187bf4b951d-1f6d7af8-3f2e-458b-9ffd-ca91ecfe04f9-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> References: <010f0187bde523cc-f60c3688-3843-44d4-b848-f37b2fd6a598-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <010f0187bde523cc-f60c3688-3843-44d4-b848-f37b2fd6a598-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> These do indeed seem to be different from yours, which is unfortunate. It would be good if someone else not using gmane could check both results as well (although that shouldn't be a factor, as I have other groups that don't appear to be getting flattening). The threads that are semi-flat appear to be because it did match one of the References but not all of them. For example, in this thread, your reply was: Message-ID: <010f0187e5785f8e-23fd3577-ced2-4f4a-a235-6b7a24d0022c-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> References: <010f0187d80eb0dd-93bebdd9-cabf-4ad6-a7f4-b5515bd22d31-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> <010f0187dca41ec8-478dfff5-d27d-4879-ab72-072be2f76176-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> <010f0187e09fef87-f959fd75-f882-47dc-b20c-f103c943383d-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> <010f0187e141f8b1-75bb05d0-8b61-4190-af34-2efb57ce70df-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> <CANEqPjFF80D2dp5pAZfo1aF7YHt73_cs5wFgENNZ40_piTZnvA(a)mail.gmail.com> <010f0187e2536549-44ef0b67-13ba-420a-8c95-50e5212ccbf5-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> <010f0187e400f951-96bb316d-68ca-4d38-a08a-6f9cfb56ec78-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <010f0187e400f951-96bb316d-68ca-4d38-a08a-6f9cfb56ec78-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> Replying to my message: Message-ID: <010f0187e400b04d-bdb05955-7e9a-4aae-b4f5-cde46033a981-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> References: <010f0187d80eb0dd-93bebdd9-cabf-4ad6-a7f4-b5515bd22d31-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> <010f0187dca41ec8-478dfff5-d27d-4879-ab72-072be2f76176-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> <010f0187e09fef87-f959fd75-f882-47dc-b20c-f103c943383d-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> <010f0187e141f8b1-75bb05d0-8b61-4190-af34-2efb57ce70df-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> <CANEqPjFF80D2dp5pAZfo1aF7YHt73_cs5wFgENNZ40_piTZnvA(a)mail.gmail.com> <010f0187e2536549-44ef0b67-13ba-420a-8c95-50e5212ccbf5-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <010f0187e2536549-44ef0b67-13ba-420a-8c95-50e5212ccbf5-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> Which was a reply to Andrey's: Message-ID: <010f0187e2536549-44ef0b67-13ba-420a-8c95-50e5212ccbf5-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> References: <010f0187d80eb0dd-93bebdd9-cabf-4ad6-a7f4-b5515bd22d31-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> <010f0187dca41ec8-478dfff5-d27d-4879-ab72-072be2f76176-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> <010f0187e09fef87-f959fd75-f882-47dc-b20c-f103c943383d-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> <010f0187e141f8b1-75bb05d0-8b61-4190-af34-2efb57ce70df-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> <CANEqPjFF80D2dp5pAZfo1aF7YHt73_cs5wFgENNZ40_piTZnvA(a)mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CANEqPjFF80D2dp5pAZfo1aF7YHt73_cs5wFgENNZ40_piTZnvA(a)mail.gmail.com> And yet I'm seeing both my message and your reply to it as siblings under Andrey's, because you appear to have a different id for my message than I do.

1 0

Re: [boost] Q1 2023 Update: C++ Alliance's Efforts (PDF Attached)
by Julien Blanc 04 May '23

04 May '23

Le 2023-05-04 01:44, Gavin Lambert via Boost a écrit : > This is what I'm seeing -- note that the current thread appears > semi-flat (even though most of these sibling messages were actually a > reply chain), but the "replacing the ML with a forum" thread appears > mostly normal. > https://imgur.com/a/GfTS6ig You're luckier than me. The current thread is semi-broken, but the "replacing the ML with a forum" one is completely broken for me. I'm starting to wonder if we all receive the same emails (in the sense that they may not contain the same set of headers). For me, the initial message of Vinnie in the "replacing the ML with a forum" thread contains the following: Message-ID: <010f0187bde5599a-e76c27f2-225d-4d7e-b2c8-887e3a07ecb8-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> But Mashshall's answer, on the other side, contains the following headers : References: <010f0187bde530fb-ff3c1911-df7d-4399-b5d2-82f8062bf18c-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <010f0187bde530fb-ff3c1911-df7d-4399-b5d2-82f8062bf18c-000000(a)us-east-2.amazonses.com> The "In-Reply-To" should match the Id of the initial message, for threading to work correctly. This is too obvious to be a client bug. Can someone check the Message-ID he has for the initial message of Vinnie in the "replacing the ML with a forum" thread? If it's different from mine, then that's probably the source of the issues. Regards, Julien

1 0

Re: [boost] Q1 2023 Update: C++ Alliance's Efforts (PDF Attached)
by Gavin Lambert 03 May '23

03 May '23

On 4/05/2023 03:55, Andrey Semashev wrote: > The fact that the initial message is not part of the thread now is a > relatively recent issue. This is the mailman archive from a year ago: > > https://lists.boost.org/Archives/boost/2022/04/index.php > > Threading is fine there. In fact, threading was working correctly as > recently as in February 2023: > > https://lists.boost.org/Archives/boost/2023/02/index.php > > and has been broken in March: > > https://lists.boost.org/Archives/boost/2023/03/index.php > > If the system works (and worked) the way you describe, mailman was able > to associate the initial message with the thread before and now it > isn't. I suspect, this may have something to do with the headers that > are added by SES to the messages it sends to the subscribers. Threading only sometimes works in the gmane view as well. Usually it's not the mailing list itself at fault, but due to the mail client used by the person posting -- or sometimes that they're replying to a digest rather than the original mail, so the context headers are lost (even if they edit it to look like it was a reply to a single post). I have noticed an apparent increase recently in the number of posts that appear "flat" or semi-flat (still showing as a reply, but to a grandparent post rather than the real parent post) -- but other recent threads still do appear normally nested, so I don't think it's a systemic issue. This is what I'm seeing -- note that the current thread appears semi-flat (even though most of these sibling messages were actually a reply chain), but the "replacing the ML with a forum" thread appears mostly normal. https://imgur.com/a/GfTS6ig

1 0

Re: [boost] Q1 2023 Update: C++ Alliance's Efforts (PDF Attached)
by Sam Darwin 03 May '23

03 May '23

Amazon SES is a basic SMTP gateway service. It has fewer features and options than mailgun. Incoming and outgoing mail are handled differently. When emails are sent out from the mailman server, they are proxied through SES. Only verified identities may send mail. Notice the sender says "boost(a)lists.boost.org", since lists.boost.org is a verified domain that is working, otherwise it would be blocked. Incoming emails go directly to mailman, not through any intermediary. SES is not involved with incoming emails to the mail server. This is the same situation as before. - Are emails being sent out? Almost certainly all the emails are being sent as shown by the mail logs on the mail server, and on SES it says "0.01% bounce rate", which is very good. - Is threading working? checking lists.boost.org, messages are organized into threads. However, it may be that threading is only partially correct. If that is what you are reporting. There are only a few settings exposed in the gateway to be able to adjust. One of them which hasn't been added yet is "Custom MAIL FROM domain", that could be modified from the default of amazonses.com to "a subdomain of lists.boost.org". As an experiment, I will set that today, and observe if it helps. Mailgun has been in production for many years. It costs $500 per month to send smtp messages. It's a reasonable idea to try out another service that's only 5% of the cost. But at the same time, it's not impossible to switch back to mailgun, if threading is partially disrupted, and we can't find a solution. On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 4:56 AM Andrey Semashev via Boost <boost(a)lists.boost.org> wrote: > > On 5/3/23 10:59, Julien Blanc via Boost wrote: > > Le 2023-05-02 15:25, David Sankel via Boost a écrit : > >> I wanted to call out Sam Darwin's work on this: > >> > >>> Transitioned boost mailing list gateway from mailgun to Amazon SES > >> > >> This transition has resulted in a $575 per month cost reduction in Boost > >> Foundation hosting expenses. Sam did an excellent job here. > > > > Did that happen around end of february / start of march? I've noticed > > that threaded view was broken around that date (and still is). At first, > > i blamed my client (evolution) but i see the same issue with another > > (roundcube). > > > > A quick look at mail headers seems to show wrong values in the > > References: header (but that is far beyond my expertise). > > I can see the threaded view is indeed broken in the mailman archive, for > example see here: > > https://lists.boost.org/Archives/boost/2023/04/index.php > > You can see the initial post is not grouped with the following thread. > > I should also mention that I was not totally correct when I said I don't > use threaded view when I read Boost ML. On my mobile email app that I > forgot about, I do use threaded view, and I did notice that some > messages were not grouped with the rest of the discussion. It didn't > occur to me until now whether those messages were the initial ones in > the discussion, but it may have been so. > > > _______________________________________________ > Unsubscribe & other changes: http://lists.boost.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/boost

2 1

Re: [boost] Q1 2023 Update: C++ Alliance's Efforts (PDF Attached)
by David Sankel 03 May '23

03 May '23

I wanted to call out Sam Darwin's work on this: > Transitioned boost mailing list gateway from mailgun to Amazon SES This transition has resulted in a $575 per month cost reduction in Boost Foundation hosting expenses. Sam did an excellent job here. Thanks Sam and C++ Alliance for this valuable work! David Boost Foundation

2 1

Re: [boost] Boost CI Infrastructure
by Boris Kolpackov 03 May '23

03 May '23

Vinnie Falco via Boost <boost(a)lists.boost.org> writes: > I guess what I'm trying to say here is that we care deeply about long > turnaround times on CI ("they suck) have been working on the problem. This email may give an impression that the CI suckage is an inherent problem that one just has to live with so I want to provide a different perspective. As part of the build2 project we have implemented our own CI infrastructure from the grounds up: from managing our own hardware, to VM-based CI job handling, to custom web interface for result viewing. This was based on concluding that all the existing off- the-shelf solutions are primarily focused on "web development" and will result in the subpar experience for large C/C++ projects (Boost, Qt, etc). Some key differences of our approach compared to the commonly used setups (e.g., GitHub Actions): 1. "Push CI" explicitly triggered during development as opposed to "pull CI" triggered on commit/PR/etc. This allows specifying the target configurations to build in, alternative project configurations, etc.[1] 2. Standard "CI script"[2] that is used by all the C/C++ projects instead of each projects doing their own thing. This "CI script" is written in C++ and has evolved to cover a fairly elaborate set of scenarios, including: 1. Testing of preparation of source distributions (to make sure there are no missing files, etc). 2. Testing of libraries as installed (to make sure no public headers were omitted during installation, etc). 3. Ability to test projects with build-time dependencies (e.g., source code generators, build system modules, etc) in cross- compiled environments. 3. Interactive CI support. The push CI can request an interactive session where the above "CI script" is stopped at one of the pre-defined breakpoints allowing the user to login into the machine via VNC or SSH and investigate the problem. 4. Large number of build configurations covering all the major platforms/compilers/versions[3] with a well-defined obsolescence policy. To give a sense of how this works in practice, here is my typical workflow: 1. Hack on some feature in a branch, build and test locally. 2. When need to test on other platforms, push the branch to remote and submit the CI request. Normally it's just: $ bdep ci The result is a URL with the interface like this: https://ci.stage.build2.org/@04e5ffb7-cf96-42f9-bc91-94d3ffe48de1 One nice touch is that it detects compiler warnings, as can be seen in this result: https://ci.stage.build2.org/@23da340d-cb4d-4105-8474-bb870e1a1380 (Drop the UUID from the above URL to see some other CI jobs.) 3. Say everything works fine except on Windows with an old MSVC version. If the fix is clear, I push it and re-CI but just on this specific configuration (this is both faster for me and saves resources for others): $ bdep ci --build-config windows_10-msvc_14.3 If the fix is not clear and I need to play with it or run the debugger, I can request an interactive CI session: $ bdep ci --interactive windows_10-msvc_14.3/error That `/error` part is a breakpoint, meaning that the CI job will execute the standard "CI script" until the first error (compile error, test failure, etc) and pause. 4. Once all is good I clean up my feature branch (squash commits, etc), rebase on master, CI one more time for good measure, and merge to master. When I push my changes to master, there can be a hook that submits a "verification" CI job. [1] https://build2.org/bdep/doc/bdep-ci.xhtml [2] https://build2.org/bbot/doc/build2-build-bot-manual.xhtml#arch-worker [3] https://ci.cppget.org/?build-configs

1 0

Re: [boost] Q1 2023 Update: C++ Alliance's Efforts (PDF Attached)
by Andrey Semashev 03 May '23

03 May '23

On 5/3/23 10:59, Julien Blanc via Boost wrote: > Le 2023-05-02 15:25, David Sankel via Boost a écrit : >> I wanted to call out Sam Darwin's work on this: >> >>> Transitioned boost mailing list gateway from mailgun to Amazon SES >> >> This transition has resulted in a $575 per month cost reduction in Boost >> Foundation hosting expenses. Sam did an excellent job here. > > Did that happen around end of february / start of march? I've noticed > that threaded view was broken around that date (and still is). At first, > i blamed my client (evolution) but i see the same issue with another > (roundcube). > > A quick look at mail headers seems to show wrong values in the > References: header (but that is far beyond my expertise). I can see the threaded view is indeed broken in the mailman archive, for example see here: https://lists.boost.org/Archives/boost/2023/04/index.php You can see the initial post is not grouped with the following thread. I should also mention that I was not totally correct when I said I don't use threaded view when I read Boost ML. On my mobile email app that I forgot about, I do use threaded view, and I did notice that some messages were not grouped with the rest of the discussion. It didn't occur to me until now whether those messages were the initial ones in the discussion, but it may have been so.

1 0

Re: [boost] Mailing Lists For The Win!
by Hans Dembinski 03 May '23

03 May '23

> On 2. May 2023, at 17:52, Vinnie Falco via Boost <boost(a)lists.boost.org> wrote: > > This will take additional time so it probably won't make it into the > initial cut of the website, but we will at least be showing read-only > archives for now. And the mailing list will remain as-is, forever. This sounds like a pretty neat solution. I like the mailing list to participate in the communication, but I don't like to browse the ML archive to dig up old conversations. I think that's going to be easier with the forum. Hans

1 0

Re: [boost] Q1 2023 Update: C++ Alliance's Efforts (PDF Attached)
by Julien Blanc 03 May '23

03 May '23

Le 2023-05-02 15:25, David Sankel via Boost a écrit : > I wanted to call out Sam Darwin's work on this: > >> Transitioned boost mailing list gateway from mailgun to Amazon SES > > This transition has resulted in a $575 per month cost reduction in > Boost > Foundation hosting expenses. Sam did an excellent job here. Did that happen around end of february / start of march? I've noticed that threaded view was broken around that date (and still is). At first, i blamed my client (evolution) but i see the same issue with another (roundcube). A quick look at mail headers seems to show wrong values in the References: header (but that is far beyond my expertise). > Thanks Sam and C++ Alliance for this valuable work! Yes, thanks for all this invisible work. Julien

1 0